Muslims & Christian thoughts on Jesus Christ

[Winter80-sara]

I don't want to offend anyone and if this question does I am truley sorry. My question is. Is it true Muslims believe Jesus was a man but not the son of God? If so why and if i'm completely wrong please correct me I don't want to mislead anyone. I don't know if i am phrasing this question right or or. Feel free to dicuss as much as you know about this subject. Thank you

[cyounus]

in regards to Jesus (Isa)

Surah 3:45
Whe the angles said "O Mary, Allah gives you news of a thing from Him, for rejoicing whose name will be Messiah, son of Mary Illustrious in the world and the next, and one amoung the honoured, and will be amoung the upright and doers of good.

It then goes one to talk about the birth of Jesus. As you can see even the Quran names Jesus as the Messiah. However, he is the son of Mary and the creation of ALLAH, not the son of ALLAH.

To put it simple. ALLAH did not have sex with Mary HE sent an angle to plant a seed. and also there is none greater than ALLAH.

[Taelyn]

Thank you Thank you for that quote *S*

[Ali al-Mahdi]

There is a movie made by the IRIB (Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting) called "Maryam Moghaddas" (Saint Mary) that tells the story the Mother of Jesus (AS) from an Islamic perspective. It's a really good movie.

If God had a son, it would go against the strict monotheism of Islam. God is one and has NO partners. This is called "Tawhid" (Unity).

[Winter80-sara]

I would to email you sometime how do i get your email?

[cyounus]

are you asking Ali or me? for Ali you can PM him for me you can u2u

[Ali al-Mahdi]

I PM'd you, Winter80.

[Winter80-sara]

Hello. I get how to contact you cyounus but I dont know how to pm someone. Do you know how or where I go.

[Winter80-sara]

thank you AliMahdi

[Ali al-Mahdi]

To PM: click on U2U under the persons message. :)

[Winter80-sara]

Oh ok. Duh! I don't know where my brain was. I am deffently interested in learning more. So I will probably email you sometime soon. Do you prefer to talk about religion privately. I know some people are not comfortable discussing in front of a large group. If so I won't ask any question right now. Thanks again;)

[zuhra]

Well, Jesus was a prohet like all the other prohets that Allah has send down on us human......All prohets are equal. Jesus is not Son of Allah. Allah almighty is one and only one.

Sura 112 Aya 1 to 4

Say: Allah is One
Say: He is Allah , the one and only
Allah is He on Whom all depend
He begets not, nor is He begotten.
And none is like Him.

This Sura is a very pure and a powerfull one, All praise is to Allah and Allah alone. :)

[Winter80-sara]

I am a little confused. Some are saying Allah came form Jesus and others are saying Jesus was a prophet that Allah sent to us. I might be reading it wrong but if anyone can clarify fo me. Thank you

[cyounus]

Oh Winter, I am soooo sory

Please understand.

ALLAH is Arabic for GOD, from now on when I respond to you I will use GOD, The is the same GOD of the jews and christians.

Jesus in the son of Mary, The Messiah. Some Christian say that he is the son of God. In my earler post I gave the passage of the Quran on Jesus. To Muslima he is a prophet and not the son of GOD

[Winter80-sara]

Thanks for replying cynounus, I understand Allah is God. So let me know if it sounds like I got what your saying. Christians (like myself believe he is the son of God) and Muslims believe he is a prophet and the son of Mary. Is that correct?:P

[cyounus]

You got it.
We all agree that there is only ONE GOD. We just differ on Jesus. We also believe that no man had toughed Mary and that the arch angle Gabreil was sent to Mary to implant a seed. That Jesus was a vergin birth

[Winter80-sara]

I know that in the catholic religion we have crosses that symbolise Jesus. In the muslim religion do they have things like that. Forgive me I don't know how to ask that question correctly.

[cyounus]

There is nothing like that, not even a painting of any Prophet because we are taught that this may take away from our duities of worshop God. We do have necklases that have passages of the Quran.

[Winter80-sara]

Oh ok. That makes sense. I heard you pray 5 times a day. Is it the same or do each differ?

[Ladyjinx]

can you post a muslim prayer?
I know very few prayers of any kind.
I just make up my own when i pray.
I'm very curious what a typical prayer would be.
If its to personal a thing then i appologize for asking.

[Winter80-sara]

Id love to hear a prayer also. I'd like to see it in Arabic and in engish.

[cyounus]

1. Face the direction of Mecca (Qiblah):

This is an organizational point decreed by God in 2:125. God wills that all submitters must face the same direction when they observe the contact prayers. In the U.S.A., the direction is slightly South of East.

2. The Intention

In your own language, secretly or audibly, state your intention that you are about to observe the Contact Prayer. Remember to state the time (Dawn, Noon, Afternoon, Sunset, or Night).

3. Raise your hands to the sides of your face:


Your thumbs touch your ears, and the palms of your hands face forward.



4. Say "Allahu Akbar".

As you raise your hands to the sides of your face, then move them down to your sides in a continuous motion, you say, "Allahu Akbar" (God is Great). This opens up the prayer. You are in contact with your Creator.


5. The Standing Position:

You are now standing with you arms resting naturally at your side. Some people place the left hand on the stomach, and the right hand on top of the left hand. Either position is correct - you may place your hands on your stomach while standing, or you may let your arms hang down by your sides.

6. Recite "The Key" (Sura 1) in Arabic:

We learn from 2:37 that God gives us the words by which we establish contact with Him. We must utter the specific sounds dictated in "The Key". A translation of "The Key" would be human-made. The Arabic sounds of "The Key" represent a numerical combination that opens the treasure. Like a telephone number, unless a specific numbers are dialed, contact cannot be established. This is all the Arabic you need. Everything else can be said in your language. Reciting "The Key" in Arabic unifies all Submitters of the world, regardless of their languages.

[The Key]
1. BISMIL LAAHIR RAHMAANIR RAHEEM.
(In the name of GOD, Most Gracious, Most Merciful)
2. AL HAMDU LILLAHI RABBIL `AALAMEEN.
(Praise be to GOD, Lord of the universe)
3. AR RAHMAANIR RAHEEM.
(Most Gracious, Most Merciful)
4. MAALIKI YAWMID DEEN.
(Master of the Day of Judgment)
5. EYYAAKA NA`BUDU, WA EYYAAKA NASTA`EEN.
(You alone we worship; You alone we ask for help)
6. EH'DENAS SIRAATAL MUSTAQEEM.
(Guide us in the right path)
7. SIRAATAL LAZINA AN`AMTA `ALAYHIM; GHAYRIL
MAGHDOOBI `ALAYHIM WALADDAALEEN.
(the path of those whom You blessed; not of those who have deserved
wrath, nor of the strayers)


Since "The Key" is recited 17 times a day, it will become easy for you to recite and understand in a few weeks; it will become like your mother tongue.

7. The bowing position (Rukoo)

After reciting "The Key" while standing, you bow down into the position of Rukoo`. you bow down from the waist, keep the knees straight, and place your hands on your knees. Your eyes look at a point about 2 feet in front of you.

As you move from the standing position to the bowing position you say, "Allahu Akbar".

While bowing you say "Subhaana Rabbiyal Azeem" or "Glory be to God, the Great" or "God be glorified" for short.


8 Stand Up:

As you stand up from the bowing position to the standing position you say, "Sami`Allahu Liman Hamidah" or "God responds to those who praise Him".

You stay in the standing position only a second, then you fall prostrate. As you go from the standing position to the prostration position you say, "Allahu Akbar".



9. The Prostration Position (Sujood):

From the standing position you go down on your knees, then place your forehead on the floor about 1-2 feet in front of your knees.

During prostration you say, "Subhaana Rabbiyal A`laa" or “Glory be to God, the Most

High” or "God be glorified" for short


10. The Sitting Position.


As you sit up from the prostration position, you say, "Allahu Akbar." You remain in the sitting position only for a second, then you go down for the second prostration.

As you go down for the second prostration you say, "Allahu Akbar."

During the second prostration you say, "Subhaana Rabbiyal A`laa" or “Glory be to God, the Most High” or "God be glorified" for short Once you complete the second prostration, you have completed one full unit (Rak`ah).


11. Stand up for the second unity (Rak`ah).

As you stand up you say, "Allahu Akbar."
This Contact Prayer consists of 2 units.

Repeat steps 5 through 11.


Thus, when you get from the second prostration you say, "Allahu Akbar," and assume the sitting position. While in the sitting position you pronounce the First Pillar of Submission, the shahhaadah:

Ash-Hadu Allaa Elaaha Ellaa Allah, Wahdahu Laa Shareeka Lah.
(I bear witness that there is no other god beside God. He ALONE is God; He has no partner).


Look to the right and say, "Assalaamu Alaikum," then to the left and say the same. This completes the Dawn Prayer.

[Ali al-Mahdi]

Instructions on how to pray (Salat)
http://www.playandlearn.org/reader.asp?Type=Fiqh&fn=114

Salat is ritual prayer. It must be done in Arabic. A Duaa is a personal prayer to God. It can be done in any language and any format.

You can hear Duaa (Supplications) by going to www.shiasource.com. My favourite is Duaa Tawassoul.

[Winter80-sara]

Thank you for typing all that out for us. Its beautiful.

[Winter80-sara]

???

[cyounus]

That was to be one a u2u for some one else. Sorry. I will remove it.

[Winter80-sara]

thats cool. I just didnt know. thanks

[cyounus]

it was a creation of GOD as Adam was a creation

[Ali al-Mahdi]

God says "Be!" and it is.
God can go against "normal nature." He is our Creator - whatever is His will, will happen!

The angel Jebra'il (Gabriel) isn't the "father" of Nabi Isa (Jesus) (AS). He has no father, just as Adam and Howa (Eve) had no parents.

[cyounus]

No he was born a man as any other man. However what many people do not know is that like the prophet Jesus (pbuh) the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) was also a decentent of Abraham, By way of Ismail.

[cyounus]

YES!! :)

[Winter80-sara]

So in your religion is Jesus and Mohammad equal. I've heard you pray I think to Mohammad. If this is true do you pray to Jesus? Sorry if im completely wrong. I'm still learning

[cyounus]

No they are not equal, In fact we also believe that Jesus is the Massiah and will return. The prophet Mohammad was the last prophet and in NO way do we pray to him or through him, or in the name of him or anything else. He was born flesh and blood, lived in flesh and blood, and died in flesh and blood. He was a Holy man.

[Winter80-sara]

Oh ok. I just read somewhere on here that you prayed to him. Sorry I hope I didnt offend you in any way. I just wanted to Know so i would have the correct information.

[cyounus]

It's ok you can ask any question you want. but where did you read it? do you remember?

[Winter80-sara]

No sorry I don't remeber. I'm glad you responded. I really didn't want to offend you. Where is it that you pray in the direction of. I read that your always to pray facing , I think Mecca, I could be wrong again but is any of this true?

[Ladyjinx]

i could not find my way out of a paper bag.........directions wise.
Its so hard being ignorant lol

[Winter80-sara]

tell me about it. It is hard.lol

[Ali al-Mahdi]

Yes, we Muslims pray in the direction of the Kaabah in Makkah. (Mecca in English spelling).

Please note that Allah is everywhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qiblah

[Ladyjinx]

How do you know what direction Makkah is?

[Ladyjinx]

OOPS i'm sorry i mean mecca

[RhyanShae]

I believe it would be like this.

If in the US, Mecca is to the East, so they would pray facing East. If in China, Mecca is to the West of them, so they would pray facing west.

[ashleyheartskaysar]

Originally posted by RhyanShae
I believe it would be like this.

If in the US, Mecca is to the East, so they would pray facing East. If in China, Mecca is to the West of them, so they would pray facing west.

I agree with you on this one...

[Sahar]

Originally posted by Winter80
So in your religion is Jesus and Mohammad equal. I've heard you pray I think to Mohammad. If this is true do you pray to Jesus? Sorry if im completely wrong. I'm still learning

One of the key pillers of Islam is accepting the oneness of God and accepting that God has no equal or partners.

A Muslim's prayers are, therefore, always(without exception) directed towards God.

The Prophet Mohamed (phuh) is a highly revered figure for Muslims, and it is customary to ask God to bless his soul and that of all other prophets (pbut).

[Winter80-sara]

Muslims pray 5 times a day. Is it the same prayer or are each one different?

[Ladyjinx]

Are the arabic words in the "key" pronounced as they are spelled?

[cyounus]

Winter,
Each preayer is different.


Lady,
If I understand your questin then the answer is Yes

[Winter80-sara]

Thanks cyounus. Also what is the name of the rug muslims kneel on to prayer and is that so your not directly on the ground like to keep clean?

[cyounus]

Sajada (prayer rug)

During Islamic prayers, worshippers bow, kneel, and prostrate on the ground in humility before God. The only requirement in Islam is that prayers be performed in an area that is clean. Prayer rugs are not universally used by Muslims, nor specifically required in Islam. But they have become a traditional way for many Muslims to ensure the cleanliness of their place of prayer, and to create an isolated space to concentrate in prayer.

[Hashman]

The 5 prayers each consist of a few rakats, which is like one 'cycle'.

Fajr (dawn) - 2 rakats
Dhuhr (midday) - 4 rakats
Asr (afternoon) - 4 rakats
Maghrib (dusk) - 3 rakats
Isha (night) - 4 rakats

The first rakat consist of two chapters of the Quran, then bowing down with hands on knees (ruku) once, and prostrating with forhead on the ground (sujud) twice. The second rakat is similar, but there is also a tashahhud (testimony that God is one) after the sujuds...and the Shias also include a qunut (short invocation while standing) before ruku, but Sunnis do not.

The third and fourth rakats are similar to the first one, except there is only one chapter recited instead of two. And after the final rakat (whether it's the 2nd/3rd/4th, depending on the prayer), the tashahhud is recited and then the taslim (salutation).

So while there are some differences between each of the prayers, they're very similar.

[Winter80-sara]

Oh ok thanks that makes since. I like that. Is Sajada pronounced the way its spelled?

[cyounus]

I pronounce it that way

[Winter80-sara]

Oh ok.Do women pray as much as men do and is it true they are not supposed to pray with the men?

[cyounus]

Prayer is for everyone.

Salat (contact or link prayers) is the name for the obligatory prayers which are performed five times a day, and are a direct contact or link between the worshipper and God with no earthly intermediaries.
The five-time prayers become obligatory from the moment a person embraces Islam. This is an extremely important tenet of Islam and has been enjoined with great emphasis in the Holy Quran. It is a form of worship which establishes the link between man and his Creator and Benefactor, GOD. Through 'Salat' a person communes with his Lord, the Creator and the Sustainer of the Universe.
Just as performing 'Salat' is obligatory, learning to perform it in the prescribed way is also obligatory so that one should know what he/she is saying to his/her Lord, and enjoy the full blessings and benefits of praying. In the performance of Salat , reciting the Ftiha (Sura 1 of the Quran) have to be said in Arabic.

In the act of congregational prayers with both sexes, a man has to lead the congregational prayer. This has been mandated from the time of Abraham with no change. Any change now will be an innovation. A women leading a group or congregational prayer, is a detail that is not mentioned in the Quran, similar to the absence of details concerning rituals of our religious practices. A woman leading a congregational prayer with men present would be a "religious" innovation that contradicts God's system that was inherited and fully preserved since Abraham. The Quran strongly condemns innovation (6:138-140, 7:53, 7:71, 12:40, 16:56, 46:28).
God is the one who mandated the contact prayers (Salah) and specified rituals of individual and congregational prayers (Salah). Like all of our religious practices, the method of performance of Salah has come to us generation to generation from the time of Abraham with the Quran only correcting the corrupted rituals. Ablution and the prayer tone are the examples (5:6, 17:110).

[Winter80-sara]

How does one imbrase Islam?

[cyounus]

To pervent any confusion I have removed these questions. I apologize for any misunderstanding. Any information here is of personal opnion unless quoted from the Quran. Again my sincere apologies


We are no different from any of the communities that preceded us in history. We are subjected to tests, in order to distinguish between those who want to worship God alone, and those who are satisfied with following cherished innovations and false beliefs. Some converts to Islam are discouraged from reading the Quran on their own or asking some legitimate questions. They are told “you don’t know enough yet...you have a long way to go before you can truly understand what it means to be a Muslim.” This reminds me of some Christians who teach one another not to question the validity of the Trinity. Learning how to pray and learning the shahadah are presented as monumental tasks that only the true and sincere can ever do correctly. Many converts end up mimicking cultural traditions and practices of the Muslims they befriend. The traditions are entirely unrelated to Islam and God’s guidance in the Quran. In some cases the traditions are presented to new converts as part of Islam.
God knows our intentions, our secrets, and our declarations.

When most people are challenged with truths that expose cherished false beliefs and practices, they cling to their traditions. When first confronted, they have an overwhelming psychological need to stand up and fight for their beliefs. They want to believe they are fighting for God. To not fight for the beliefs is to say to one’s self, “I never really believed in the first place.” That is an uncomfortable thought. The person is actually defending him or her self, or ego in this case. The person does not want to feel uncomfortable or feel like a hypocrite. The person does not want to feel “wrong or stupid.” Psychologically speaking, converts to a cause are frequently the strongest advocates because of their zeal to believe and prove their loyalty.

Satan knows that humans do not like to feel uncomfortable. He knows that humans are weak and too often defend false beliefs just to keep from feeling wrong. Satan manipulates the feeling of being wrong to his advantage. He increases the sense of mere dedication to a belief because he knows that heightened dedication alone frequently makes a person feel better. Only God can protect you from false religious beliefs, especially when you have been taught that the beliefs are correct. When you stop defending yourself (ego), overcome your zealous dedication to false beliefs, and place your trust in God, you no longer feel uncomfortable or wrong when you question false practices.

The most important question: Who are you trying to please  God or your ego and other Muslims?
God is the best to guide.

[cyounus]

Surah 17:36
You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.



To affirm their faith or to convert Muslims should use the examples given in the Quran. What they should say is "I SUBMIT MYSELF TO THE LORD OF THE WORLDS". (Arabic: Aslamtu li rabbil aalameen). Others who have affirmed their faith in this way are the Prophets Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob, Solomon and of course the Prophet Muhammad (Sura 40:66). Also the Queen of Sheba and the companions of the Prophet did the same. If you adopt their way, you will be in good company.

In conclusion, a convert must attest his or her faith by submitting to Lord of the universe by saying; " I SUBMIT MYSELF TO THE LORD OF THE WORLDS". (Arabic: Aslamtu li rabbil aalameen)", and by attesting to the truth that there is no other god but GOD by saying; "I bear witness that there is no god except God " (Arabic transliteration: "Ash hadu anlaa ilaaha illallaah").

Of course submission will not be complete unless one obeys God's every command in his Glorious book, The Holy Qur'an and by observing the duties encumbered by all Muslims (submitters) such as; Salat, Fasting, Zakat and Hajj.

" When his Lord said to him "Submit" he said
" I submit to the Lord of the Worlds"
(Quran Sura 2:131)

[Ladyjinx]

1. I have not read any ( that i know of ) so i cant answer that one.
2.I dont think i reverted ...and no.
3. no
4. no
5. i have not met any muslims ( except here)
6. no ( and frankly its beyond me , i'm having a hard time reading the quran..reciting it is out at the moment.)
7. never heard of that.
8 . no
9. there is none here.
10. i dont know
11. i dont know
but then this was probably a post for muslim people and since i'm not at least not yet and who knows if i will be, i should of just kept my mouth shut.
sorry.

[cyounus]

Naa. Keep your mouth WIDE open. these are just question that I ask students that want to convert. Ones that say they have stuidied. Just keep them and use them for asking questins of your own and learning.

[Winter80-sara]

Im not muslim either Ladyjinx but i love learning about it

[Ladyjinx]

:) Thank you Cyounus
Although i do beleive there is just one God.

[Winter80-sara]

I believe there is only one God as well. am i crazy . Wasnt Kaysar just logged on a minute ago? Now hes off again. Whats up with that

[Ladyjinx]

I also just want to say that is soooooooo very nice to be able to come here and ask questions and no one trys to convert you, condemn you or tell you that you have to beleive as they do.
I really appreciate that.

[Winter80-sara]

Ya my ex was a mormom. And we were in the talks of getting married and although he never pressured me his parents did. I didnt apprecialte it becasue it seemed like they dndt care about how I felt or what i believed in. They just wanted me to convert. And they used to say how they always hoped that there little boy would marry a Mormon woman. I have no problems with the mormon religion if fact I like it a lot but I felt pressured. I wanted to convert when I was ready and when I knew for sure it was the right path. Any way he desided to go on a mission which means hed be away for 2 yrs and we desided to break up. I didnt want to stand in his way of what he wanted. Im not like that special with it being about religion

[cyounus]

Lady,
heres one for you. It shows the link between Jews, Christians, Muslims.


Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is One God!
Therefore you shall adore the Lord your God
with all your heart,
with all your soul,
with all your mind,
and with all your strength.
[Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Mark 12:29 and Luke 10:27, Quran 3:18]

(The Old testement from the Jews) (the New Testement from the Christians) and (the Final Testement "Quran" from Islam)

[cyounus]

Originally posted by Ladyjinx
I also just want to say that is soooooooo very nice to be able to come here and ask questions and no one trys to convert you, condemn you or tell you that you have to beleive as they do.
I really appreciate that.

I, myself would NEVER try to convert aomeone. Only you know what in your heat. Submission is between you and GOD.

[Ladyjinx]

Thats beautiful cyounus!

around here people will stop you on the street or come to your house just to tell you your going to hell...since you dont belong to their church.
Thus my obssesion with fire extinguishers ( ok the fire extinguishers is just a joke, my sick sense of humor again.)

[mkaw]

Don't Muslims have different beliefs from Christians regarding Jesus' crucifiction?

[Winter80-sara]

good question

[cyounus]

This has been the single most controversial subject in the world. The Quran has provided the final answer to this topic:

Jesus' soul was raised, i.e., he was put to death prior to the arrest and crucifixion of his body. Thus, his persecutors arrested, tortured, and crucified an empty body - Jesus was already gone to the world of souls (3:55, 4:157).

They plotted and schemed, but so did God, and God is the best schemer. Thus, God said,
``O Jesus, I am putting you to death, and raising you to Me; I will save you from the disbelievers.''
[ Quran 3:54-55 ]

They claimed that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of God! In fact, they never killed him; they never crucified him; they were led to believe that they did.
[ Quran 4:157 ]

The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is the fleshly part. [Apocalypse of Peter, VII, 3, 81]

[Winter80-sara]

How did they fake his death?

[Ladyjinx]

I think what it says is his soul left his body before they killed the body.

[cyounus]

Ya, got it.

[Ladyjinx]

If and when someone does decide to convert are they left to muddle through all this and learn all this on their own?

[cyounus]

Sweet Lady,

In one way of looking at it, YES, as it is in all religions. But as in all religions networking with other is a support. What you are doing here is a help. Once a person converts or Submits they mostly go to the mosque. Most mosque has classes kind of like sunday school. These calsses are for the most part devided between the men and women, depending on the size. I attend very large Mosque in Detroit and NYC but at times we have social events with studies that are mixed classes.

[Ladyjinx]

What happens if there are no Mosques around?

[cyounus]

I should also tell you that converting "Submiting" is such a personal thing that one can not put a time period on it. One may have studied for years and know Islam very well and can answer questions with assurance but not be ready to commit while others may just know in their heart after just hearing about it in a stort time. Let no one tell you when you are ready or not ready. That will always be between you and GOD.

[4Jay4Kay]

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If Mary was telling the truth, her baby had no human father. She claimed an angel appeared to her and told her she would conceive a son by God's Spirit. Then he said that this child, whom she was to name Jesus, would be the Son of God. If Mary was lying, the night of Jesus' birth was not holy, and the only thing that was silent was the truth. But how can we know? How can we take seriously the kind of story that usually deserves laughs of disbelief? The answer is in what followed. If there were no witnesses and no evidence, we could ignore Mary's claims. If her son's life was the same as any other life, her claim of a virgin birth would be the easiest of all stories to dismiss
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What we do know is that in the seventh century BC, the prophet Isaiah made predictions about a Servant of the Lord who would rule the earth in the last days. He described a day in which all of the earth would be at peace and all the nations would go up to Jerusalem to worship God (Isaiah 2). Isaiah announced, "Unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace" (9:6). Isaiah also gave a mysterious prophecy that was only partially fulfilled in his lifetime. It began, "The Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel" (7:14). Immanuel means "God with us."

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In the shepherds' fields outside of Bethlehem, a group of witnesses formed a bridge between Isaiah and Mary. According to New Testament records (Luke 2:8-14), terrified Jewish shepherds were visited by an angel who announced the birth of Israel's long-awaited Messiah. The angel said, "Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people. For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. And this will be the sign to you: You will find a Babe wrapped in swaddling cloths, lying in a manger" (vv.10-12). As the shepherds told it, the sky was filled with angels praising God and saying, "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among men in whom He is well pleased" (v.14).
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According to the New Testament, a light in the sky gave additional credibility to Mary. A group of Magi from the East followed a "starlike sign" to the Jewish town of Bethlehem. What they found was a child they believed to be the long-awaited Jewish Messiah. For hundreds of years Old Testament prophets had been speaking of "a Star" and "a Scepter" that would come out of Israel (Numbers 24:17). The Old Testament also predicted a ruler of Israel who would come out of Bethlehem, a ruler "whose goings forth are from old, from everlasting" (Micah 5:2).
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Many believe that the Magi who worshiped Jesus after His birth came from the region of Babylon. If so, they could have had access to the prophecy of a Jewish prophet named Daniel. While in exile in Babylon 400 years earlier, Daniel had a vision that allows for the calculation of the arrival of the Jewish Messiah. According to Daniel's vision, from the command to rebuild the temple (458 BC or 444 BC), 69 "sevens" would be followed by the arrival and death of Messiah (Daniel 7:13-14; 9:24-27). Some believe this prophecy predicted the exact number of days until Jesus' triumphal entry into Jerusalem.
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Some have suggested that Jesus never claimed for Himself what His followers claimed for Him. Yet the commotion that surrounded His life can be best explained by His repeated claim to be one with God. John, one of the Gospel writers, quoted Jesus as saying, "Before Abraham was, I AM" (8:58). (In Exodus 3:14, the name I AM was used by God to identify Himself to Moses.) John also quoted Jesus as saying, "I and My Father are One" (10:30) and "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him" (14:7). According to the Gospels, Jesus said that to love or hate Him, or to receive or reject Him, was to love or hate, receive or reject His Father in heaven.
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When Thomas, one of Jesus' disciples, saw the resurrected Christ, he declared, "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28). Years later, Jesus' close friend and follower John wrote, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. . . . And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth" (John 1:1-3,14). Another friend, Peter, in one of his letters to the early church, addressed his readers as "those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:1).
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Jesus' friends may have wanted to believe He was more than a man, but His enemies did not. The religious leaders of Israel were outraged to think that the same man who accused them of being hypocritical, blind leaders of the blind, would also claim to forgive sins, would speak of God as His Father, and would even say that He was one with God. On more than one occasion the leaders of Israel picked up stones to kill Jesus, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God" (John 10:33).
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Jesus' miracles recorded in the New Testament were more than wonders. They were signs. He did them to encourage men and women to believe in Him for everlasting life. He healed a crippled man to affirm His right to forgive sins. He fed thousands of people with a little boy's lunch, setting the stage for His claim to be the "bread of life." He walked on water, stilled angry seas, healed the sick, restored paralyzed limbs, gave sight to the blind and hearing to the deaf, and even raised from the dead an embalmed man by the name of Lazarus. One reason Jesus performed miracles was to support His claim to be God. The apostle John wrote, "Truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name" (John 20:30-31).
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Many people down through history have claimed to be gods. Yet only one man has been willing to die for the sins of others. Only one has risen from the dead to prove that He is the Son of God. According to the New Testament, after Jesus voluntarily gave His life on an executioner's cross, He appeared to His closest disciples and more than 500 other followers for a period of 40 days (1 Corinthians 15:5-8). The eyewitnesses were so convinced of His resurrection that they were willing to suffer and die for their claims. His disciples said that He showed them His scarred hands and feet, walked and talked with them, and even ate with them. Then while they met with Him on the Mount of Olives, He gave them His last words and ascended into the clouds. With a departure more spectacular than His arrival, Jesus left us with a better understanding of the announcement of the angel who said, "There is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord" (Luke 2:11).
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If you have mixed feelings when you think about the evidence surrounding the life of Jesus. You may feel compelled to believe that Jesus is the Son of God, but you're not sure of your relationship to Him. If that's the case, be assured of this: If you accept Him, He will accept you. If you will receive His offer of forgiveness, everlasting life, and adoption into the family of God, He will become your Savior, Teacher, and Lord.

If you've never received Jesus in this way, we encourage you to carefully read the New Testament verses of Romans 3:23 (which says that all have sinned), Romans 6:23 (which says that the wages of sin is spiritual death, separation from God), and Romans 10:13 (which assures us that all who call on the name of the Lord Jesus will be saved). To accept God's gift, you can pray something like this: "God, I know I'm a sinner. I know I can't save myself. I believe Jesus died on the cross for my sins. I believe He rose from the dead to live His life through all who believe in Him. I now receive Him as my Savior. I accept Your offer of forgiveness and everlasting life. Thank You, Father. In Jesus name I pray. Amen."

[Hashman]

cyounus, when you quote from other places, it's a good idea to include a reference to the original source and ideally put the quoted text inside the [ quote ] tags. That way there's no confusion what you're writing and what you're just quoting, and there's also an idea of the kind of source where the information is coming from.

Obviously, many Muslims would say "Yes" to some of those 11 questions you posted, and it does not make them any less Muslim than you or I. :)


Winter80 : To embrace Islam, you just have to believe (sincerely and firmly) that There is No God but Allah, and Muhammad is His Messenger. The easy part is to think it or say it (the Shahada -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahada )...the harder part is living it.

[cyounus]

I lived through that one. I was in Oklahoma. As for you daily life you perform your prayers at home or anywhere you choose. As for networking and support, we have the internet now which does make it very easy and not so lonely. Many people did not know I was Muslim when they met me on the street and when they did find out it was no big deal. I know that may be supprising considering it was the bible belt. However you might be supprised where a mosque might be. They are not always in buldings. I attended one that was an apt. that was rented by the 7 muslim families in the area.

[Ladyjinx]

4jay-4kay
what i am understanding from all of that is that it is saying that Jesus is God.
I'm sorry i just do not beleive that.
I do beleive in Jesus, i think he was great performed miracles, and had a tremendous world changing message.
But i dont think he was God.
God is God.
and did he not pray? if he was god why would he pray. I mean God is God.

[cyounus]

Hashman,
Those questions came from a word doc one my computer that has been there for sometime. I do not remeber where I got them and they might have been worked over. They are ment to question yourself not as a check list.

If this has comfused anyone I will be most gladly remove them. My intention is never to misguid or mislead anyone.

[4Jay4Kay]

Originally posted by Ladyjinx
4jay-4kay
what i am understanding from all of that is that it is saying that Jesus is God.
I'm sorry i just do not beleive that.
I do beleive in Jesus, i think he was great performed miracles, and had a tremendous world changing message.
But i dont think he was God.
God is God.
and did he not pray? if he was god why would he pray. I mean God is God.



Among those who recognize the authority of the Bible, few if any doubt the full deity of the Father. In many different ways, the Father is revealed as the personal God of creation. The Scriptures reveal God as the Father of the nation of Israel (Deut. 32:6; Is. 1:2; Hos. 11:1; Mal. 2:10). Jesus called God His Father (John 5:17-18) and taught us to pray, "Our Father in heaven" (Matt. 6:9). He told us that we are to come to the Father in His name (John 16:23). He declared that both He and His Father would soon send His disciples a divine Helper (John 15:26).

It is clear from these verses that the Father is God. God is Father. The apostle Paul referred to Him as the "God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort" (2 Cor. 1:3).

What is important about the Father's revelation of Himself, however, is that He made our relationship to Him dependent on our relationship to His only Son.
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The New Testament writers repeatedly refer to Jesus Christ as the Son of God. But what does this title mean?

Jehovah's Witnesses take this expression to mean that He was a son of God, much like angels and other human beings. They believe that Jesus was the archangel Michael in human form.

Present-day leaders in Judaism say that Jesus was a great prophet, but nothing more. Muslims take the same view. Suzanne Haneef, a well-educated contemporary Muslim, points out that the Koran honors Jesus by teaching that He was born without the agency of a human father, and that He was a great prophet. But she insists that Islam's sacred book "states emphatically in passage after passage that Jesus is not God's Son, . . . that such a notion has much more in common with pagan mythologies in which 'gods' fathered semi-divine children by human women, than with a true religion coming from God" (What Everyone Should Know About Islam and Muslims, Haneef, 1979, Kazi Publications, Chicago).

The New Testament, however, teaches that Jesus Christ is the "only," the unique (see p.24) Son of God (John 1:14,18; 3:16,18; 1 John 4:9). The Scriptures portray Christ as sharing the glory of a jealous God who, through Moses, insisted that no one deserved to be worshiped but God Himself. This God shares His love with angels and mortals. But with Christ the Son, He shares His glory.


To see the extent to which the Son shares the glory of the Father, let's consider the evidence of Christ's words, the testimony of the apostles, the predictions of the Old Testament prophets, and the declarations of the church fathers.

The Words of Jesus.
The four Gospels record many of the words Jesus spoke during His earthly ministry. Even if we did not believe in the inspiration of the New Testament, we would have good reason to accept what they wrote as accurate. We have strong evidence that Matthew, Mark, and Luke were written well before AD 70. And although the Gospel of John was not produced until around AD 90, the evidence is strong that it belongs to the apostle John, who was actually with Jesus throughout His earthly ministry. The apostles undoubtedly repeated the words of Christ often as they began to proclaim the gospel. Jesus' words tell us that He definitely claimed to be God. We'll look at only two of the tremendous statements Jesus made about Himself.

In John 8:58 we find Christ's claim that He never had a beginning. Since only God is eternal, this amounts to a declaration of deity. To a group of hostile religious leaders, He said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." Notice, Jesus didn't say, "Before Abraham was born, I was born." He said, "Before Abraham came into being, I AM." Abraham was born within the framework of time. Jesus declared that His own existence transcends time. He has always existed. He had no beginning.

While this declaration that He never had a beginning is enough to establish Christ's deity, some Bible students see something more in this statement. They claim that Jesus Christ declared Himself to be the "I AM" of Exodus 3:14. While this point can be debated, the very fact that Jesus Christ said He never had a beginning is enough to establish the claim of deity.

The second statement of Christ in which He calls Himself God is found in John 10:30. While attending the feast of dedication at Jerusalem, He said, "I and My Father are one." The religious leaders recognized that He was claiming deity when He made this statement. They started throwing stones at Him and said they were doing so because of "blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God" (John 10:33). They understood our Lord's words better than present-day Jehovah's Witnesses do. They realized full well that He was saying more than if a man said, "I and my wife are one." This husband would mean simply that he and his wife are one in their desires, plans, or ambitions. Jesus obviously meant more than that. He was saying that He and the Father are one in essence. The Jews knew that Jesus had claimed deity for Himself.

Jesus clearly saw Himself as the Son of God. He viewed Himself as deity.

The Testimony of the Apostles.
The men who wrote the New Testament also had no doubt about the deity of Jesus Christ. Some of them could remember that day when their friend Thomas saw the resurrected Christ and exclaimed, "My Lord and My God!" (John 20:28). This was not an expression of surprise like, "Oh my God!" that we so often hear today. No Jew in the first century would use God's name that way. The apostles recalled full well that Jesus accepted this designation of deity.

When the apostle John, who was present on that occasion, opened his Gospel, he did so as follows: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1). He proceeded to declare that this Word became a human being who reflected the glory of God (see v.14). The expression in verse 1, "And the Word was God," is so clear that almost all Bible students see it as a declaration that Jesus Christ is God. Jehovah's Witnesses, however, do not agree. They argue that the last phrase in John 1:1 should read, "And the word was a god." They point out that the word God does not have the definite article. It does not read, "And the Word was the God."

They are correct in this observation, but they are wrong when they conclude that it does not ascribe deity to Jesus Christ. Robertson, Wescott, Morris, and other reputable scholars tell us that John had good reason for omitting the article here. If he had written, "And the Word was the God," he would have denied the distinction between the Father and the Son--an error made by a man named Sabellius and rejected by the church fathers.

If John had meant to say that Jesus was a lesser form of deity, he would have used the Greek word theios instead of theos. Morris says, "This word was available, and it is found in the New Testament (e.g. Acts 17:29; 2 Pet. 1:3)."

Moreover, the context makes it clear that the Word is God, not merely a quasi-divinity--a being somewhere between God and created beings. The Word existed in the beginning (John 1:2). The Word was involved in the creation of everything (v.3). He possesses a life that is unique--an uncreated life that was His from eternity and is the source of spiritual light (v.4).

It is clear that the translation of John 1:1 is correct: "And the Word was God." The very word order in the Greek, the use of theos instead of theios, and the context demand this rendering.

In addition to John's testimony that Jesus Christ is God, we find clearer statements in the writings of Paul to the same effect. He declared that we as Christians are "looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13). Notice, it is "our great God and Savior Jesus Christ"not "our great God and the Savior Jesus Christ." Since Paul put no article before the word Savior, it is clear that he saw Jesus Christ as our great God.

The apostle Peter used a similar Greek construction when he addressed his readers as "those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ" (2 Pet. 1:1).

In Hebrews 1:8,10, we find the writer quoting several Old Testament verses that clearly refer to God and applying them to Jesus Christ.

But to the Son He says: 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever' [a quote from Ps. 45:6] . . . . You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands' [a quotation from Ps. 102:25-27].
The writer of this epistle, thoroughly schooled in the Old Testament Scriptures and therefore a strict monotheist, was not one bit reluctant to declare the absolute deity of Jesus Christ. He identified Jesus Christ as "God" and "LORD."

The Predictions of the Old Testament Prophets.
Even the Old Testament Scriptures, so dear to many Jewish people, declared the deity of the coming Messiah with crystal clarity. One of the remarkable prophecies that does so is Isaiah 9:6.

For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Two of these names given to the coming Messiah undeniably express His deity--"Mighty God" and "Everlasting Father." Jehovah's Witnesses translate the first expression "a mighty god" but are not consistent. They encounter the same Hebrew expression in Isaiah 10:21 where even they must admit that it refers to Jehovah, the God of Israel. The term "Mighty God" as we find it here is therefore a clear declaration of Messiah's deity.

The name "Everlasting Father" may be translated "Father of Eternity." But it really doesn't matter which term we choose. Either one expresses deity. Since only God is everlasting, only God can be given the name "Father of Eternity." And the prophet declared that this title belongs to the "Child" and "Son" who was to come as the Messiah.

The Declarations of the Church Fathers.
The early church fathers struggled to come up with a satisfying answer to the question, "Who is the Son?" They knew that the Scriptures ascribed deity to Him. They also saw in the Scriptures evidence that He was truly human. But they didn't know exactly how the human and divine blended in His one Person. Some put so much emphasis on His deity that they tended to deny His true humanity. Others erred in the other direction.

Finally a man named Arius came up with a teaching that actually denied Christ's deity.He said that before Jesus came into our world through the virgin Mary, He pre-existed as the first and highest of all created beings. This denial of our Lord's deity, though promoted by some prominent leaders at the time, simply could not stand in the face of serious biblical study. Little by little, careful scholars who worked with the biblical data, concluded that Jesus Christ is both fully human and fully God. Moreover, they said that these two natures--the human and the divine--were united in His one Person. The Athanasian Creed (Athanasius died late in the 4th century) put it this way:

So the Father is God; the Son is God; the Holy Spirit is God. And yet there are not three gods, . . . , neither confounding the essence, nor dividing the substance.

The result is that with few exceptions, Christians down through the ages have affirmed the deity of Jesus Christ as expressed in the Athanasian Creed. All the great divisions of the church--Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Baptist, and Pentecostal--agree on this point. The vast majority of those who claim allegiance to Jesus Christ have held Him to be both God and man in one Person.
The fact that Jesus was fully human is clearly revealed in the Bible. He was born a baby, grew and learned like other boys (Luke 2:40,52), was a carpenter's son in Nazareth (Mark 6:3), became tired like the rest of us (John 4:6), even admitted there were some things He didn't know (Matt. 24:36), and on the night before His crucifixion dreaded the ordeal before Him (Matt. 26:36-46). Yet, the Bible also teaches that Jesus is fully God.

The church fathers couldn't explain how Jesus could live as a genuine human being while remaining God (and neither can we). However, we are all grateful for the light the apostle Paul shed on this problem in the well-known passage about Jesus emptying Himself of His eternal glory:

Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made Himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death--even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Phil. 2:5-11 NIV).
Looking back to Jesus Christ in His glorious state before He became a human being, the apostle said, "Being in very nature God" (v.6). He used the Greek word morphe, translated "very nature," to make it clear that the outward glory He had in heaven reflected His essential being. In "very nature" He is God.

The apostle went on to say that Jesus "did not consider equality with God something to be grasped" (v.6). He let go of the glory He possessed as God so that He might become a member of the human family and be our Savior.

The phrase "made Himself nothing" in the Greek literally reads "emptied Himself." Of what did He empty Himself when He became a member of the human family? Not of His deity! He remained God. What He did was empty Himself of the glory He possessed and place Himself in a dependent relationship with the Father and the Holy Spirit. Therefore, though He remained God, He became truly human.

Jesus had to be a member of our race to be our proper substitute on the cross. This accounts for the fact that He depended on the Holy Spirit in the same manner He expects His followers to do. He was "filled with the Holy Spirit" when He went into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan (Luke 4:1). He cast out demons "by the Spirit of God" (Matt. 12:28). Although Jesus remained God, He voluntarily lived with the limitations of our humanity.

We may not understand fully the relationship of our Lord's human and divine natures while He lived here in the state of humiliation. However, the Scriptures make it very clear that though He was God, it was in His elemental manhood that He faced trial, trouble, and pain--even the cross.

This is the Son with whom the Father shared His glory. This is the Son so closely identified with God that the Father makes our relationship to Him dependent on our relationship to His Son.

Our relationship with the three-in-one God, however, does not end there. As the Father made our relationship with Him dependent on our relationship with the Son, so the Son has made our relationship with Him dependent on our relationship with the Spirit. As the Father shares His glory with the Son, the Son shares His glory with the Holy Spirit

Some who claim to be Bible students do not believe that the Holy Spirit is God. A writer for Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, said, "The Holy Spirit is a controlled force that Jehovah God uses to accomplish a variety of purposes. To a certain extent it can be likened to electricity, a force that can be adapted to perform a great variety of operations" (Should You Believe in the Trinity? p.20). They believe that the Holy Spirit functions much like the Force that New Agers portray as pervading the universe. They flatly reject the idea that the Holy Spirit is a divine Person.

In so doing, however, they contradict Jesus Christ. He clearly perceived of the Holy Spirit as a Person. Speaking to the apostles on the evening before His crucifixion, Jesus said:

I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever--the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you (John 14:16-17).
The Holy Spirit is "another Helper." The implication is clear: Although Jesus would be leaving them, He would send them the Holy Spirit to guide them and empower them. This is clearly the function of a personal being.

Other Bible passages also make it clear that the Holy Spirit is a Person. Paul spoke of the "love of the Spirit" (Rom. 15:30). He also told us not to "grieve the Holy Spirit of God" (Eph. 4:30). Only a personal being can love and be grieved.

In addition, the Holy Spirit leads and guides (Rom. 8:14), teaches (John 14:26), and calls and commissions (Acts 20:28).

Moreover, this Person is named with the Father and the Son in passages like Matthew 28:19. The apostle Peter expressly declared the Holy Spirit's deity when he confronted a sinning husband and wife. He asked them why they had conspired together to "lie to the Holy Spirit" (Acts 5:3). Then he told them that in so doing, they had "not lied to men but to God" (v.4).

Who is the Holy Spirit?According to the Scriptures, the Holy Spirit is a Person who rightly shares with the Father and the Son the title and the glory of the Most High God.

The Bible definitely teaches that the Father is God, that the Son is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. It also shows that each has a distinct personality. That adds up to three Gods, right? Yes, if we are working with mathematics or thinking of three separate people. But we are dealing with a God who is revealed in the Bible as one God, who has existed eternally as three distinct (not separate) Persons.

God is one Being, not three. It follows that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not three separate Persons. We can distinguish between them, but we cannot separate them.

As distinct Persons, each functions in His own unique manner. The Father is the Originator, the Son is the Agent, and the Holy Spirit is the Administrator or Applicator. Each lives with the other two in an I-You relationship. Each Person is self-conscious and self-directing. Yet one Person never acts independently of the others or in opposition to them. The mind, will, and emotions of each Person is in perfect unity with the mind, will, and emotions of the other two.

All three Persons were involved in the creation of all things. It was "by Him" (Jesus Christ) that God created all things (Col. 1:16). The creation story in Genesis 1:2 portrays the Spirit of God as "hovering over the face of the waters."

In salvation, "God [the Father] so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son" (John 3:16). After Christ's resurrection and ascension to heaven, both He and the Father sent the Holy Spirit (John 14:16; 16:7).

The distinction between the three Persons in the Godhead was clearly in evidence at the time of our Lord's baptism. In Matthew 3:16-17 we see the Son coming up out of the water, the Holy Spirit descending in the form of a dove, and we hear the Father in an audible voice declaring, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

Jesus affirmed the Trinity when He commanded His disciples to baptize "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 28:19).

One God in three Persons! He is the God Christians worship and serve. In this God we have a heavenly Father who loves us with parental love and at great cost sent His one and only Son to die on the cross for our salvation. In this God we have Jesus Christ, a brother who became one of us to take the punishment we deserved, who understands our pain, and who isn't ashamed to call us His brothers and sisters even though we continue to be weak and imperfect. In this God we have the Person of the Holy Spirit as our Helper--a divine Comforter who lives in us to strengthen us and give us victory over sin.

This triune God hears us when we pray. He understands us and feels with us when we suffer. He will be with us at the time of death to see us safely home. How important and how comforting it is to believe in the triune God of the Bible!

This charge is without foundation. The pagans worshiped many gods. Sometimes these gods were arranged in groups of three, but they were always separate beings. They never worshiped one God who existed in three persons.

Anti-trinitarians often cite the Hindu triad Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva as a trinity. But these three gods are by no means a unity. They quarrel and fight and indulge in wicked passions.

Sometimes people try to see a similarity between the Lord Jesus and Lord Krishna, the Hindu god who is portrayed as the incarnation of Vishnu. But Krishna is not a historical person. Moreover, the myths portray him as a god with both good and bad characteristics. He had his lovers and was not always honest.

Since all three Persons in the Trinity are equally God, isn't it wrong to refer to them as the first, second, and third Persons?

No, these terms do not indicate rank. They refer to the function of each Person--the Father as Originator, the Son as Agent, and the Holy Spirit as Applicator. Salvation, for example, originates in the Father's love, is provided in the coming of Jesus, and is made real in our lives through the Spirit. In this sense we can speak of the first, second, and third Persons of the Trinity.

The Bible speaks of Jesus as the "only begotten" and "firstborn." Doesn't this indicate that He had a beginning?

The Greek word monogenes is used to refer to Jesus Christ five times in the New Testament (John 1:14,18; 3:16,18; 1 John 4:9). The King James Version translates it as "only begotten." In the past, Christian scholars, believing as they did in the deity of Jesus Christ, referred to Him as having been "eternally begotten." Today, however, new light on the Greek word has led scholars to see monogenes as the compound of the words only and kind or class. Jesus Christ is "the unique Son," "the only one of His class." Every other "son" of God (angelic and human) is a created being. Jesus always existed.

The term firstborn is used two ways in the New Testament. In Colossians 1:18 and Revelation 1:5, it refers to Jesus as the first to rise from death in a glorified resurrected body. In Romans 8:29, Colossians 1:15, and Hebrews 1:6, it refers to Jesus Christ as the God-man who has the place of pre-eminence over all creation, just as the firstborn in a Jewish family had over his siblings. These references in no way deny Christ's deity.

If Jesus is God, how could He die? Who held the world together while God was dead?

Jehovah's Witnesses seem to think they have dropped a bombshell on Christians with these questions. What they don't realize is that in the Bible, death for humans is not cessation of existence. It is the separation of the soul-spirit from the body.

When Jesus cried out, "It is finished!" (John 19:30) and said, "Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit" (Luke 23:46), He didn't pass out of existence. His soul-spirit went to Paradise where He was soon joined by the thief who had repented. On the third day, His soul-spirit was united with His glorified resurrection body.

If Jesus is God, why did He say, "My Father is greater than I"? (John 14:28).

In His humanity, having voluntarily laid aside His glory as God, He had made Himself temporarily "lower than the angels" (Heb. 2:9). In this state of humiliation, He could speak of the Father being greater than He. He would not have said this before the incarnation, nor would He say this today in His state of exaltation.

Why did Jesus seemingly deny that He claimed deity for Himself by pointing out that the Old Testament prophets applied the term "gods" to human judges?

The incident to which this question refers is found in John 10:31-39. The Jewish leaders were about to stone Him for saying, "I and My Father are one" (v.30). At this moment, He called to their attention the fact that Psalm 82:6 says of human judges, "You are gods." But Jesus was not putting Himself on the same level as these mere humans. He set Himself apart from them by affirming that He had been uniquely sent from heaven. However, He didn't proceed to explain clearly His absolute deity because these people were not ready for this truth.

Therefore, just as Jesus had used parables to reveal truth to those who were ready for it, and to conceal it from those who were not ready (Matt. 13:10-17), He now spoke in terms that would both reveal and conceal. The prejudiced people did not understand. As a result, it was possible for Peter a few months later to address people who had agreed to Christ's crucifixion and say, "Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers" (Acts 3:17). In short, Jesus did not deny His deity. He simply referred to it in such a way that He didn't anger those not ready to receive it.

If Jesus is God, why does 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 tell us that at the end of time, He will deliver the kingdom to God the Father and become subject to Him?

In this passage, Paul told us that the time is coming when Jesus will have completed His work as Messiah and Mediator. While here on earth, He fulfilled the law for us, paid the price for our sin, and broke the power of death. Today He is the head of the church. Sometime in the future, He will call the church to heaven at the rapture (1 Thess. 4:13-18). Then He will return to earth to rule as depicted in many Old Testament passages (Is. 2:1-4; 11:1-9; Jer. 23:5-6). After His reign of 1,000 years, He will crush one final rebellion (Rev. 20:7-10), purge our present earth-system with fire, and bring out of it the new heavens and new earth (2 Pet. 3:10; Rev. 21-22).

Paul declared that at this time, Jesus Christ as the God-man Mediator will leave His place in the center of the stage, subject Himself to God the Father, and resume His original place within the Trinity as before His incarnation. The only difference will be that He shall, throughout all eternity, retain His glorified humanity.

If Jesus is God, why did He say He was going to return to His God?

Jehovah's Witnesses often ask this question. The verse to which they refer is John 20:17, which says, "I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God." They say that Jesus placed Himself in the same relationship to God as Mary Magdalene, the person to whom He was speaking. But if that is what Jesus meant to do, why didn't He just say, "Iam ascending to our Father and our God"?

Jesus made this statement to make sure Mary Magdalene would recognize that His relationship to God was different from her relationship to God. Jesus is God's Son by nature. Mary Magdalene was God's child by adoption. Jesus could speak of God as His God through an eternal relationship. Mary Magdalene could think of God as her God by virtue of the grace He revealed in Christ.

The words of Jesus recorded in John 20:17, therefore, depict the fact that Jesus' relationship to God the Father is unique.

Is it all right to address our prayers to Jesus or the Holy Spirit?

We know that it is right and proper to pray to God the Father. Jesus told us to say, "Our Father in heaven" (Matt. 6:9). We also know that we are to come to the Father in the name of Jesus, expecting Jesus to respond (John 14:14). Stephen, at the moment of his death, addressed the Lord Jesus (Acts 7:59-60). We have no Bible passage that either directs us to pray to the Holy Spirit or gives us the example of doing so. However, we know that He is involved when we pray. Paul told us that the Spirit "helps in our weakness" and "makes intercession" when we do not know what to pray for (Rom. 8:26).

It follows that we probably should normally address the Father when we pray. We should come to Him in the name of Jesus. We should rely on the Holy Spirit to lead us in our praying. We should also depend on the Spirit to intercede for us when we don't know what to say. We probably need not be unduly concerned about which Person we address. All three hear us when we pray. All are involved in the answers. Besides, no envy or jealousy exists within the Trinity.

Can we use any illustrations to explain the doctrine of the Trinity?

Probably not. I've seen people hold up an egg and say, "The yolk, the white, and the shell make up the egg. This is three in one."But the yolk is fat, the white is albumen, and the shell is calcium--no real unity there. Some have said that water can exist as ice, liquid, and steam. But in any form, it is just water--not three in one. Aminister thought he had a remarkable illustration when he said, "I am a father to my family, a pastor to my church, and a citizen in my community--three in one." But he was actually repeating the heresy that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three characteristics or modes or relations of the Godhead--three ways God works.

The closest analogies probably can be found in these clusters of three: (1) in the universe--space, time, and matter; (2) in matter--energy, motion, and phenomena; (3) in time--past, present, and future.

But these analogies add little light to the subject of the Trinity. At best they may only reflect the three-in-oneness of the Creator.

We must learn to live with a God we cannot fully comprehend. As C. S. Lewis has written: "If Christianity was something we were making up, of course, we could make it easier. But it isn't. We can't compete, in simplicity, with people who are inventing religions. How could we? We're dealing with fact! Of course, anyone can be simple if he has no facts to bother about"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why put so much emphasis on the doctrine of the Trinity? What if a person has faith in a personal God, views Jesus as the highest of all created beings, believes He died for sinners and arose from the grave, and is trusting in Christ for salvation? Isn't that faith adequate for salvation? Yes it is, but that person will believe in the Trinity when it is presented to him. It is one of the most basic and most life-related teachings of the Bible.

To underscore its importance, we will see how it impacts the most well-known verse in the Bible:

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life (John 3:16).
If you don't believe in the Trinity, you would have to say that this verse teaches that God sent the first created being to die that we might be saved. But why is sending one created being (even the first one) to save other created beings such a big deal? What makes that a supreme demonstration of God's love?It's nothing more than God sending one of His creatures to save others.

But if you do believe in the Trinity, you accept this verse as a declaration of a breathtaking truth. It tells us that God loves us so much that He, in the Person of Jesus Christ, came to share our pain and provide salvation at great cost. The apostle Paul declared that "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself" (2 Cor. 5:19). This statement makes Calvary the supreme manifestation of God's holiness and love.

We often speak of what Jesus suffered on the cross. But what of the Father? What of the Holy Spirit?If a mother and father suffer as they watch their child endure pain, why not the Father and the Holy Spirit?The relationship of the Persons within the Godhead is closer than that of family members.

We have a triune God who has shared, and still shares, the pain of His creatures. He who chose to create and give His moral creatures freedom to sin, and thus bring pain and death into His world, also chose to share our suffering and sorrow.

We serve a God who in Christ suffered for us, a God who in Christ conquered death for us, a God who in Christ understands our pain, a God who because of what He did in Christ will someday bring all of His children into a world where there will be no more suffering, death, or tears.

The Allah of the Muslim faith isn't this kind of God. The Jehovah portrayed by Jehovah's Witnesses isn't this kind of God. Only the triune God of the Bible can be this kind of God.

Yes, God is so different from us and so awesomely great that we cannot comprehend Him fully. He is incomprehensible. But He is knowable!

Why? Because He has reached down to us. He made Himself known to people during past ages by supernatural appearances and audible speech. Then about 2,000 years ago, He made Himself known in the Person of Jesus Christ. Hebrews 1:2 tells us that "in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son" (NIV).

You can know God by looking to Jesus and believing on Him. Read the portrait of Him in the Gospels. Pay attention to His words. Set yourself to obey Him. Jesus promised, "If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether My teaching comes from God or whether I speak on My own" (John 7:17 NIV).

When you see that He is indeed "the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6) and receive Him as your Savior, you will become God's child (John 1:12). Before long, you too will be able to say, "I have come to know God."

[cyounus]

You may or may not know that the bible has been translated many times over the years and continues to be translated. During the translations word or thought have been incerted to mold the bible to the translators opnion. Therefor, if you want to know the exact wording then you need a copy of the orig.

This is part of the miracle of the Quran. It has NOT been changed in all the years.

[Ladyjinx]

OK i'm gonna have to read that several times......i'm getting very confused.

[cyounus]

Originally posted by cyounus
I should also tell you that converting "Submiting" is such a personal thing that one can not put a time period on it. One may have studied for years and know Islam very well and can answer questions with assurance but not be ready to commit while others may just know in their heart after just hearing about it in a stort time. Let no one tell you when you are ready or not ready. That will always be between you and GOD.

Lady,
I brought this foward for you to see.

[cyounus]

Originally posted by cyounus
I lived through that one. I was in Oklahoma. As for you daily life you perform your prayers at home or anywhere you choose. As for networking and support, we have the internet now which does make it very easy and not so lonely. Many people did not know I was Muslim when they met me on the street and when they did find out it was no big deal. I know that may be supprising considering it was the bible belt. However you might be supprised where a mosque might be. They are not always in buldings. I attended one that was an apt. that was rented by the 7 muslim families in the area.

[Winter80-sara]

Can a mosque be located anywhere then?

[cyounus]

Yes, One of my favorits is in the basement of a Pakistani restraunt in the corner of 36thst and 9th ave in NYC

[Ladyjinx]

Thank you again Cyounus

[Winter80-sara]

Is it hard to locate a mosque for a first timer? Or can you look it up in a phone book? I have never seen on in Ky. I know they have to be here though.

[cyounus]

They are everywhere. what metro area do you live close to and I will give you the number and they will tell you where one is that is close to you.

[cyounus]

One of our subject last night was registering.
In most christian chruches you reister or become a member of. At a Mosque you do not. there are no visitor cards to fill out. you do not have to stand and be reconized as a guest or anything. You simply go for prayer and sermon.

[Ladyjinx]

I would be too embarresed to just show up
it sounds so invasive and intrusive to just show up and bardge in.
Also i would be to embarrassed not knowing the prayers or the customs of it. Even what is or is not acceptable as far as clothing .

[Winter80-sara]

I like that. Would I be looked at in a weird way because I would know what to do and should I learn the prayer first before going? Or would I not be expected to know?

[Ladyjinx]

I"m just curious what insane asylum the police woudl take me too once they came and took that crazy lady away lol.
no seriously
if there are any muslims in this area they are well hidden , which would mean they would probably be worshiping from a home. I just could not go bardge into someones home.

[Ladyjinx]

Also i dont think i would be quite ready yet to go to a mosque. My few breif contacts i've had with organized religion have been very bad experiences.. so i'm very cautious. I would have to be feeling much more confident then i do yet.

[cyounus]

You dan't have to attend, You could drive by and do some investiagting. In fact you should not go untill you are ready.

[Ladyjinx]

They are hidden lol
i can see them looking out the window......."who is that crazy woman with sunglasses? ........is she following us???"
LOL

[cyounus]

OK girls. Let me explain. A mosque is not just a church. It is more like the town halls of yesterday. When town meeting were held and socials took place, Govenment meeting were held there. school were there. etc.....

[Ladyjinx]

Ok but i never see women walk in the front of a Mosque on tv.
(they need more muslim women on tv btw)
So what would you do
just walk in?

[Winter80-sara]

Ok so if you want to do so investigating. When going into a mosque where do we go to talk to people that way we dont interupt anything going on in there. Ladyjix - your a hoot.

[Ladyjinx]

Oh no i think i've frightened cyounus away!

[Winter80-sara]

Nice goin Lady- Gosh! hehe Just kiddin. Cy will be back. Needs her/his Lady fix.

[cyounus]

I'm here but I was breaking fast and getting some things done, I am going to load the dish all washers and get the food put away. I do have answers for you. give me an hour. You will like my answers.

[cyounus]

BTW it's she C. Younus

[Ladyjinx]

K glad your back Cyounus

[Winter80-sara]

Im glad your back too. I look forward to your answers. Ok I know your a she. I thought you were but I didnt wanna say just in case

[cyounus]

Most mosque have two enterances, thats way you don't see women and most media are respectful enough not to show women.

When you go in ask for the Imam or who ever is going to lead prayer. The will not boot you out the door. the only thing you should do is wear a scarf on your hair. There is not any right way to wear it. Sometimes I just put one on and tie it under my chin like my grandmother did.

[Ladyjinx]

is there a desk or somthing you go to to ask for the Imam?

[Ladyjinx]

and what would you wear? slacks? a dress? whats acceptable?

[cyounus]

as long as you are covered. I have had pant, long dresses, I do go with short sleves ( not no sleves) in the summertime. You shouldn'e wear anythng tight. basicly dress like you would if you were going to church except no short dresses. (ankle length).

You can ask anyone for the Imam. there is no furnitur. so don't be supprised at how plain it is.

[Winter80-sara]

Imam how do you pronounce that. Is they I pronounced hard or soft? And is it best to not wear makeup?

[cyounus]

emom,
makup is optional just not too heavy

[Winter80-sara]

Do we just say we're here to visit or here to learn?

[cyounus]

Yes,
they will not make a fuss over you they will try to make you comfortable and talk to you and maybe ask if you would perfer to talk to other women

[Ladyjinx]

Do people go to the mosque everyday?

[Winter80-sara]

Do you know if muslim men are allowed to date. There is so much your not supposed to do together. I was just wandering what the correct maner is to. If you dont go on dates what do you do to get to know each other. Also can muslim women ask a man out or is that a big no no. Is it only allowed for men to make the first move?

[Hashman]

Make up = no no
Dating = no no (and that's why Kaysar has no "girlfriend")

In terms of "making a move", Prophet Muhammad's first wife Khadija (a successful businesswoman) was the one that proposed marriage to him rather than the other way around. :)

[cyounus]

Lady , Yes some do but it is not manatory, Friday noon pray is the only one that is madatory if it is not a hardship.


Winter,
If they were who would they date :) OK, dating as we know it is a no no. there are social getherings and if a young man is interested in a woman then he may see her with her family. Everything is out in the open.

[Winter80-sara]

wow thats so interesting. So if a guy likes you does he tell you right upfront infront of family.?

[Hashman]

Originally posted by Winter80
wow thats so interesting. So if a guy likes you does he tell you right upfront infront of family.?
The traditional Islamic marriage is not a "love marriage" in that two people fall in love and then get married. The falling in love part is what comes after they're married...spouse selection is based on many other factors, including the families from which the bride and groom come.

[Aiken4LOTR]

Hmm...so, if Muslims don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God...how do they get to Heaven? Do they believe that good works get them to Heaven? I am just wondering since I can't even imagine not believing Christ to be the Savior and the way to Heaven.

I am just interested in knowing. No offense intended. While my view will not be changed, it is still interesting to learn about other cultures.

[Ladyjinx]

I thought arranged marriages where a thing of the past.
Do they still do them?

[cyounus]

OK girls, Don't fall out of your chairs. BUT, I met my husband on my wedding day!!!! :P

[Ladyjinx]

That would be down right scarry!

[Hashman]

Originally posted by Aiken4LOTR
Hmm...so, if Muslims don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God...how do they get to Heaven? Do they believe that good works get them to Heaven? I am just wondering since I can't even imagine not believing Christ to be the Savior and the way to Heaven.
Chapter 103 of the Quran:
"I swear by the time,
Most surely man is in loss,
Except those who believe and do good, and enjoin on each other truth, and enjoin on each other patience."

[Hashman]

Originally posted by Ladyjinx
I thought arranged marriages where a thing of the past.
Do they still do them?
It's not really an "arranged" marriage...the parents are more like an introduction service. :) The man and woman are the ones that choose whether they want to get hitched.

[cyounus]

Using the words arranged marriage is not accurate because the woman or man can say no if they do not want to marry. It is more like the families get together and talk and then bring the bride/groom together and then their minds are made up. this may take a long time. It does not happen overnight.

[Ladyjinx]

i can see meeting him through the parents, getting to know him some from family functions...but meeting him on the wedding day for the first time.
No offense Cyounus, but i think i would of snuck out left my e-mail address and number in case he wanted to do lunch some time and took the first train out of town.
But then i stated somwhere i'm a chicken ( and its true) :P

[cyounus]

Originally posted by Ladyjinx
i can see meeting him through the parents, getting to know him some from family functions...but meeting him on the wedding day for the first time.
No offense Cyounus, but i think i would of snuck out left my e-mail address and number in case he wanted to do lunch some time and took the first train out of town.
But then i stated somwhere i'm a chicken ( and its true) :P

we had communicated for someitme before we got married. phone calls and old fashion letters, photos back and forth ect......

[Ladyjinx]

Ahh ok thats a bit different then
you had me really worried there lol.
but then not everyone is as big a chicken as i am.

[Hashman]

cyounus, did you know that these days you can even do a nikah on MSN Messenger? See http://www.maniacmuslim.com/Online_Nikkah.html

:D Send the link to your kids...they'll get a kick out of it. :)

[Ladyjinx]

Whats a nikah?

[Hashman]

Nikah is basically the recitation of marriage vows/contract

[cyounus]

Originally posted by Hashman
cyounus, did you know that these days you can even do a nikah on MSN Messenger? See http://www.maniacmuslim.com/Online_Nikkah.html

:D Send the link to your kids...they'll get a kick out of it. :)

NO WAY, My oldest is 24 and I wont even consider him thinking about getting married but I do know that he has talked to my husband. I overheard them one time. I'm just waiting for that call that says Guess what mom?

[Ladyjinx]

i just read that link Hashman, and i'm just now able to pull myself up off the floor from laughing so hard!
that was too funny

[cyounus]

Hashman, I read it but what scares me is that someone would try it (namely my son David :P :P ) and try to pass it oof saying will if you can have a proxy then why not this. :)
Both of my boys can be a little frighting. There's a big gap in their ages David 24y/o and Noor 11y/o, But I tell you when they are together they conspire to get me. Like waking me up at 3am ( they reset every clock in the house). David has to go back to Okla sunday. I already miss him :(

[ddysgal]

Originally posted by cyounus
Naa. Keep your mouth WIDE open. these are just question that I ask students that want to convert. Ones that say they have stuidied. Just keep them and use them for asking questins of your own and learning.

Maybe I missed something in these posts, but, can you send me the questions that you ask people wanting or thinking about converting please?:)

[the1]

Originally posted by Aiken4LOTR
Hmm...so, if Muslims don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God...how do they get to Heaven? Do they believe that good works get them to Heaven? I am just wondering since I can't even imagine not believing Christ to be the Savior and the way to Heaven.

I am just interested in knowing. No offense intended. While my view will not be changed, it is still interesting to learn about other cultures.

Your question seems to have been left a little hanging Aiken4LOTR. We believe that Jesus is the Messiah and the son of Mary, the product of an immaculate conception in that no man had touched Mary. Islam teaches that Jesus was the a prophet of God, and not his son.

Moreover, in the Qur'an in chapter 4, God tells us:

Verse 157 - That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not

Verse 158 - Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise

Verse 159 - And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them

[ddysgal]

Originally posted by Ladyjinx
and what would you wear? slacks? a dress? whats acceptable?

Ladies, all of your questions are valuable ones. Let me say that I have only been in a mosque a handful of times, and the first time, I, too (being a very Americanized woman), was extremely unsure of what to expect. Just wear modest clothing (i.e. nothing too tight or showing too much skin; cover your arms and legs). Also, just wear a scarf on your head to cover your hair.

The sisters will more than likely greet you and talk to you. Muslim women are great at making others feel welcome.

The sisters were in one room and the brothers were in another.

I don't know how to pray at all (although I do know the prayers), so when they were praying I literally just sat in the back and took it all in. No one expects you to do anything you are not comfortable with. Just let them know that you are curious about the religion and wanted to come and experience the prayer session.

[4Jay4Kay]

Originally posted by cyounus
You may or may not know that the bible has been translated many times over the years and continues to be translated. During the translations word or thought have been incerted to mold the bible to the translators opnion. Therefor, if you want to know the exact wording then you need a copy of the orig.

This is part of the miracle of the Quran. It has NOT been changed in all the years.

More than 50,000 different books are published in the United States each year. They cover every subject imaginable, from artichokes to zucchini, from anthropology to zoology, from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe. But people who trust the Bible say it is different from any other book ever published. They say it is the only book authored by God and thus the only book that shows us how to know Him, how to live, and how to receive eternal life.

Many people don't agree. They think the Bible is flawed and unreliable, and obviously not written by God. Here's what some of them are saying:

"The Bible is not scientifically reliable." A person who thinks this way feels that the Bible is full of scientific errors and therefore cannot be trusted in spiritual matters either.

Because of their naturalistic assumptions, many scientists take issue with the miracles in the Bible. They question the scientific validity of the accounts of the sun standing still, the Israelites being fed with quail, or Jonah surviving in the belly of a huge fish for 3 days.

"The Bible is historically inaccurate." People who believe the Bible insist that it comes from God and is error-free. That's why those who do not agree often point out what they feel to be historical inaccuracies. Whenever they find something in archeology or ancient records that seems to contradict a biblical statement, they jump to the conclusion that the Bible is wrong. Unless every biblical name is authenticated through research and every fact verified by historical study, they assume that the Bible is in error.

"The Bible is outdated." Not too many books are still being printed today that were finished 2,000 years ago. But that very mark of the Bible's greatness is interpreted by some as a point of weakness and disinterest. Modern-day thinkers who have developed new philosophies and theories about life claim that no book written so many centuries ago could have anything relevant to say to our modern world--especially on such specifics as sexuality, marriage, ethics, and business.

"The Bible is the work of man." The people who say this think that the Bible is the product of man's fertile imaginations and ancient mythological traditions. They place it in the same category as the Greek stories of the gods on Olympus or the writings of Confucius or Muhammad. To them, the Bible is just another religious book.

So, many people reject the claim that the Bible is God's Word. And they object to the idea that it is a book we can trust with our life and destiny. But to reject the Bible, as we will see in the pages to follow, is to close one's eyes to an overwhelming amount of evidence in its favor. And more important, it is to ignore the reality of mankind's own spiritual need--and the rescue offered in its message.
The Bible is not different just because it claims to have come from God. The Koran was supposed to have been revealed to Muhammad by the archangel Gabriel. Similarly, Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, claimed to have been given a special revelation from God engraved on golden plates. Other religions also maintain that their sacred writings were revealed by God.

The Bible is totally different, however, in its view of God, its view of man, its view of salvation, and its view of truth.

1. Its View of God. The Bible presents God as Sovereign Lord of all (1 Chronicles 29:11); as a God of mercy, love, and goodness (Psalm 145:9), and as one God (Deuteronomy 6:4). The Koran depicts God as strict, capricious, and without compassion. Mormon doctrine teaches that there are many gods, that God Himself was once man, and that man has the potential of becoming God.

By contrast, the Bible claims that the one true God became a man in the incomparable Person of Jesus Christ. A British expert on comparative religions, J. N. D. Anderson, wrote:


Other religions may indeed include the belief that God, or one of the gods, manifested himself once, or many times, in human form. . . . But Christianity alone has dared to claim that "the one, omnipresent, omniscient ground of all existence" has uniquely intervened in His creation, not by assuming the mere form or appearance of a man, but by actually becoming incarnate (Christianity and Religion, p.51).
2. Its View of Man. While the holy books of many other religions either exalt man or debase him, the Bible gives a more balanced and realistic picture. First, it does not make man out to be more than he is, as did the ancient Greek Heraclitus who said, "The gods are immortal men, and men are mortal gods." Second, it does not make man less than he is, as psychologist B. F. Skinner did by saying man is nothing more than a complex organism controlled by his environment.

By contrast, the Bible alone does justice to both the high and the low sides of human nature. It tells of his creation in the image of God, is realistic about his sin, upholds his personal responsibility, and gives him hope for the future.

3. Its View of Salvation. The salvation of man as presented in the Bible differs vastly from the cruel and inhumane views of the world's religions. Hindus, for example, often involve themselves in agonizing acts to merit God's favor. Buddhists follow an eightfold discipline of self-denial. Muslims engage in a strict regimen of fasting and prayer to earn God's approval.

The Bible, however, offers man salvation in the God-man, Jesus Christ. It is not a salvation by works, but by grace through faith,

4. Its View of Truth. While other religious books are filled with unconfirmed claims and philosophies, the Bible supports its claims with historical and geographical facts. This is why the first-century Christians gave so much emphasis to the good news of the resurrected Christ. Their message was to be accepted not merely on the authority of the words but on verifiable evidence. The evidence for the reliability of the Bible begins with the unusual claims surrounding it. As you spend time reading the Bible, you will soon find overwhelming evidence that the writers of this book were convinced that it was uniquely God-given. We will look at three claims in this section: (1) the Bible's claims for itself, (2) Christ's claims for it, and (3) the writers' claims for it.

1. The Bible's Claims For Itself. The Bible claims, first of all, to be the Word of God to man (2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20-21). That may not seem to be a very strong reason for us to trust it. But it is a good place to start. If the Bible didn't make that claim for itself, we would have to take it upon ourselves to do so. In this regard, the Bible claims that even though it was written by human authors, it was inspired by God. And if it truly is what it claims to be--a God-inspired book--then it is absolutely trustworthy.

When we say the Bible is inspired, what do we mean? For one thing, we do not mean the kind of inspiration that comes to an author trying to write a book or a mechanic trying to find out what's wrong with a car. As they struggle with a problem, they may suddenly see a solution and say they were hit with a bolt of inspiration.

This is not what we mean when we say that the Bible writers were inspired. Rather, we mean that their writing was initiated and controlled by God Himself. In a supernatural way, the Holy Spirit led Moses, Isaiah, Matthew, Paul, and the other Bible authors to write the message of God to man.

The Bible's unusual claim to be the inspired Word of God is made clear in several key passages. Let's look at three of them. The first is in Paul's second letter to Timothy:


All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16).
The word translated "inspiration" means "God-breathed." This tells us that the Bible originated in the mind of God. The Holy Spirit influenced the individual Bible writers to put down the message God wanted mankind to have.

A second important passage that expresses the Bible's claim to be the Word of God is in one of the apostle Peter's letters:


Knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation [origin], for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:20-21).
These verses make a tremendous claim! They say that the Bible prophets did not originate what they wrote. Rather, they recorded what was given to them by God. They were moved (literally "borne along") by the Holy Spirit. Now, that doesn't mean that their individual personality or style of writing was overpowered. It means that they were kept from having any error creep into what they wrote. They were moved by the Holy Spirit to record only what God wanted man to know.

The Bible's claim, then, is that it was written by God. It is not man's book, it is God's book. Paul informed us that the spiritual truth he gave was "not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches" (1 Corinthians 2:13).

Yes, the Bible claims to be the inspired Word of God--powerful, living, and indestructible (1 John 1:1-3; Hebrews 4:12; 1 Peter 1:23-25). In both the Old and New Testaments, it is the message of God to people of all ages--a book you can trust!

2. Christ's Claims For The Bible. While Jesus Christ was on earth, He affirmed the Bible's claims for itself. In what He said about it and in the way He used it, the Son of God showed the Bible to be the Word of God. Consider the following:

He used titles for the Bible that showed its authenticity:
"the Word of God" (Mark 7:13; John 10:35).
"Scripture" (Luke 4:21; John 5:39; 10:35).
"the commandment of God" (Mark 7:8).

He accepted the persons and events mentioned in the Old Testament as historical:
Adam and Eve (Matthew 19:4-5) .
Noah and the flood (Matthew 24:37-39).
Lot, Lot's wife, and Sodom (Luke 17:28-32).
Jonah (Matthew 12:38-41).

He saw His own words as Scripture and therefore to be believed (John 12:48-49).

He held people responsible for what was written in the Scriptures (Matthew 12:3).

He used Scripture as conclusive evidence in answering His critics:
John 10:35, quoting Psalm 82:6.
Matthew 22:32, quoting Exodus 3:6,15.
Matthew 22:42-44, quoting Psalm 110:1.

He used the authority of Scripture to refute the temptations of Satan in the wilderness (Matthew 4:4,7,10).
In the way Jesus Christ quoted and used the Scriptures, He made it clear that He accepted its claims for itself to be true. While He was on earth, the living Word affirmed the written Word.

3. The Writers' Claims For The Bible. The individual writers affirmed the Bible's claims for itself by accepting the other parts of the Bible as the Word of God. They also affirmed it by the way they saw themselves as part of God's plan for making Himself known to man.


First, let's look at how the Bible authors viewed the Scriptures:

When Daniel read Jeremiah's prophecy that the Babylonian captivity would last 70 years, he accepted it as true and began to pray and plan accordingly (Daniel 9:2).
Peter accepted the supernatural origin of the writings of the Old Testament prophets (2 Peter 1:21).
Peter also accepted the supernatural origin of the writings of Paul, even though he found them hard to understand (2 Peter 3:15-16).
John said that the writings of the apostles, along with his own writings, were inspired by God and authoritative (1 John 4:6).
Second, the Bible writers saw themselves as communicating the Word of God. Look at the following passages:

The prophet Isaiah began his book by proclaiming, "For the Lord has spoken" (1:2).
Jeremiah opened his prophecy by saying, "Then the word of the Lord came to me" (1:4).
God commissioned Ezekiel to go to his people and tell them, "Thus says the Lord God" (3:11).
Paul claimed that the words he spoke were directly from God (Galatians 1:11-12; 1 Thessalonians 2:13).
Let's sum up what we have said. The Bible claims to be the book of God. Christ affirmed this claim. And the Bible writers themselves affirmed it by accepting as Scripture the writings of their fellow biblical authors and by seeing themselves as writing the words of God.


If the Bible can give us good evidence that it has come to us from God, then we can see why it makes so much sense to trust its authority. This is the pattern we follow in other areas of life. When we are sick, we don't ask a painter for a diagnosis and a prescription. Instead, we look for someone qualified to give us reliable medical treatment.

And what about the deeper, most basic decisions of life? Where do we go when we want to know what's right and what's wro