Please, I just want to know...

[ashleyheartskaysar]

Please! Please! Please! No one start a long drawn out argument... I read in a book today that Shia Muslims are supposed to keep their religion a secret, even if it means lying... all I want to know is whether or not this is true...

[cyounus]

try to u2u AliMahdi, he is also Shia. I have never heard of it

[Ali al-Mahdi]

I would be going against this rule if it existed. :o

I think you are referring to "taqiyah." If someone threatens you at gunpoint or with death if you are a Shiah or you are under serious oppression for being a Shiah then you are allowed to deny it in order to save your life and/or the life and freedom of your community, family, etc.

Here is a great online book discussing "Taqiyah" in a much better way than I could ever explain! http://www.al-islam.org/taqiyah/

This article is written on a website to answer the accusations on an anti-Shiah Wahabi website: http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/taqiyyah/en/index.php

[cyounus]

Thank you for answering. This was a new one on me. I did not know what she was talking about

[ashleyheartskaysar]

Originally posted by AliMahdi
I would be going against this rule if it existed. :)

I think you are referring to "taqiyah." If someone threatens you at gunpoint or with death if you are a Shiah or you are under serious oppression for being a Shiah then you are allowed to deny it in order to save your life and/or the life and freedom of your community, family, etc.

Here is a great online book discussing "Taqiyah" in a much better way than I could ever explain! http://www.al-islam.org/taqiyah/

This article is written on a website to answer the accusations on an anti-Shiah Wahabi website: http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/taqiyyah/en/index.php


That's not the context I read the article in, but that makes more sense. If I remember I will try to pick up the book sometime from the library, and I will post what it was I read exactly...
The book was about the major difference in Shia and Sunni Muslims, that was just one thing mentioned... I wondered if that was why Kaysar only wanted to discuss his religious choices through U2U on here, and simply replied "I am Muslim" when appraoched.

[cyounus]

ashley,
Not knowing anything about this all I can say is that nowhere in the Quran does it say that one is allowed to deny Allah. Infact just the opposite is said.

[4:69] Those who obey GOD and the messenger belong with those blessed by GOD - the prophets, the saints, the martyrs, and the righteous. These are the best company.

[57:19] Those who believed in GOD and His messengers are the saints and martyrs. Reserved for them at their Lord are their rewards and their light. As for those who disbelieved and rejected our revelations, they have incurred Hell.

[Hashman]

Originally posted by ashleyheartskaysar
That's not the context I read the article in, but that makes more sense. If I remember I will try to pick up the book sometime from the library, and I will post what it was I read exactly...
The book was about the major difference in Shia and Sunni Muslims, that was just one thing mentioned... I wondered if that was why Kaysar only wanted to discuss his religious choices through U2U on here, and simply replied "I am Muslim" when appraoched.
Do you remember the name of the book?

I don't think Kaysar's "I am Muslim" had anything to do with taqiyyah...To any informed Muslim that watched him pray in the house, his specific religion is no secret at all. His response in the forum was to prevent Shia-Sunni arguments on the forum, and to emphasize the unity of Muslims. I'm sure that's an important issue for him, because a lot of the unnecessary deaths in Iraq these days are from sectarian violence... an Oct 1 new story at http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1582389,00.html says:

"Almost 200 people, including 13 US soldiers, have been killed in the past five days. Most of the dead have been Shia Muslims, who have been increasingly targeted by Sunni militants in the run-up to the October 15 referendum on Iraq's new constitution."

:(

Division has hurt Muslims tremendously, and the last thing we need is more of it. So I think that's where his response was coming from.

[cyounus]

I agree with Hashman. This fourm was not created to have debates within the religion itseilf.

In his last sermon the Prophet pbuh said.

An Arab has no superiority over a non Arab; a white has no superiority over a black, nor a black over a white, except by piety and good deeds. Every Muslim is a brother to every other Muslim.

For me personaly, I have not nor will I debate. I will always use Surahs and tray not to use sunnah, or hadith

[ashleyheartskaysar]

Like I said, I didn't want to start any debate, so I do not see the relevance of this post. I was just asking a question.

[Hashman]

Ashley, we're not saying that you started a debate ('cause there isn't one in this thread)...just explaining why Kaysar said what he said in the other thread. :)

BTW, I'm still curious about the name of that book you mentioned above...

[cyounus]

Ashley
PLEASE do not think that you would start anything by asking a question. Questions and answers are why Kaysar started this fourm. Please do not refrain from asking any question. I did not ave a answer for you and that is why I said Ali might be able to answer. Even though I am Muslim for many years, I do NOT hold all the answers and continue to learn as well. By you asking this I have learned something also. I thank You for asking.

[ashleyheartskaysar]

Originally posted by Hashman
Ashley, we're not saying that you started a debate ('cause there isn't one in this thread)...just explaining why Kaysar said what he said in the other thread. :)

BTW, I'm still curious about the name of that book you mentioned above...


I plan to go copy the cover and pages today...

[ashleyheartskaysar]

I GOT IT!!!!!!!!1

The book is titled:

Shia & Sunni Perspective On Islam
An Objective Comparison of the Shia and Sunni Doctrines Based on the Holy Quran and Hadith

By Dr. Ahmad Addullah Salamah



"The religious beleifs and practices of Shias differentiate and segregate them from the entire Muslim Ummah. The Shias have their specific beliefs about the Attributes of Allah, the attributes of the Prophet Muhammad (Allah's peace and blessings be upon him), the reliability of the Quran and even their unique moral codes. Unfortunately because of their clanish natuer and secretive preaching, very few persons have the proper knowledge of their beliefs and practices.

History will vouch for the fact that Shiaism since its inception has been shrouded under mystery. The initial preaching and propagation of Shiaism was only through the words of mouth. None of the Imama of Shias have left any documentary evidence in their teachings. It is a strange paradox that the Shias claim to follow Fiqah al Jafri, where as Imam Jafar did not leave any evidence of a compiled Fiqah...

Contrary to the universal basic teachings of all the religions, Shiaism teaches its followers to conceal their faith and hide their beliefs. Two of their basic beliefs are 'Kithman' and 'Taqiyya' are primarily designed to achieve just this purpose. The belief in 'Kithman' commands the Shias to conceal their religion from non-Shias. The following two Hadith from the sixth Shia Imam clearly elaborate this point:

Imam Jafar Saqid said: "One, who exposes something from our religion is like one who intentionally kills us." and
"You belong to a religion that whosoever conceals it, Allah will honor him and whosoever reveals it, Allah will disgrace and humiliate him."

Furthermore, the belief in 'Taqiyya' commits the Shia to put up a hypocritical show and act in such a way that the non-Shia may never be exposed to the real Shiaism. It even allows them to lie if their intetntion is to hide their religion from the non-Shias. The following Shia Ahadis testify clearly to this effect:

Imam Jafar Sadi said: "Associate your opponents only outwardly and oppose them inwardly.""


There you guys go... maybe I took it too literally, but that is the book and content I was talking about...

[cyounus]

Ashley, I appreciate this, as I said earlyer, I did not know any of this. I can not voutch for the accuracy. All I can say is that I will only answer questions with Quran. Then there can be no debaite. Again thank you for this.

[Hashman]

Ashley, thanks very much for posting that book info. Despite the title with the words "objective comparison", it's an anti-Shia book from an anti-Shia author published in a very anti-Shia country (Saudi Arabia). It's not objective at all.

I would suggest looking for more accurate information in better places. Wikipedia, for example, has a much better explanation of taqiyya -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya . And if you want to read the info from the Shia perspective, check the link in AliMahdi's post above.

[cyounus]

Hasham,
Thank you for responding. I had never seen this author and knew nothing about it. Again thank you

[ashleyheartskaysar]

Originally posted by Hashman
Ashley, thanks very much for posting that book info. Despite the title with the words "objective comparison", it's an anti-Shia book from an anti-Shia author published in a very anti-Shia country (Saudi Arabia). It's not objective at all.

I would suggest looking for more accurate information in better places. Wikipedia, for example, has a much better explanation of taqiyya -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya . And if you want to read the info from the Shia perspective, check the link in AliMahdi's post above.


Thanks for the reponse... I too knew nothing about the author, but it I saw the book, thought about the forum and picked it up... there weren't any others of the sort so it was my only resource, so thanks again :)

[Hashman]

Originally posted by ashleyheartskaysar
Thanks for the reponse... I too knew nothing about the author, but it I saw the book, thought about the forum and picked it up... there weren't any others of the sort so it was my only resource, so thanks again :) I would've done the same if I was in your shoes. I give them an A+ for marketing by choosing an appealing title. :D

[Ali al-Mahdi]

What's "kithman"? I've never heard of it! :o

There is a lot of information about Shi'ism. We are very open to teach others about Shi'ism. That book is a bunch of BS.

[ashleyheartskaysar]

Originally posted by AliMahdi
What's "kithman"? I've never heard of it! :o

There is a lot of information about Shi'ism. We are very open to teach others about Shi'ism. That book is a bunch of BS.

Lol!

I am really happy that I asked about the book... otherwise I would have thought the author was actually right. :)

Thanks everyone!

[ashleyheartskaysar]

Originally posted by AliMahdi
What's "kithman"? I've never heard of it! :o

There is a lot of information about Shi'ism. We are very open to teach others about Shi'ism. That book is a bunch of BS.

KITHMAN

KITHMAN, is the command for Shi'a Muslims to conceal their religious beliefs from non-Shia's. Kithman is a special variety of Lying .

This practice, along with the practice of Taqiya, were, and are many places today, a method of self-preservation for the Shi'a community. Historically, the Shiites have been in the minority and have been persecuted by Sunni Muslims who considered them heretics.

Traditions from the sixth Shia Imam firmly established this practice:

Imam Jafar Sadiq (R) said:

"One, who exposes something from our religion is like one who intentionally kills us." (Ft. #1 Usool al Kafi, p.88)

"You belong to a religion that whosoever conceals it, Allah will honour him and whosoever reveals it, Allah will disgrace him." (Ft. #2, Ibid, p.522).

For more information on this topic, please read this article.:
http://answering-islam.org.uk/PQ/ch1-index.htm#ch1



Found this on the internet... haven't read it yet, but it tells about Kithman...