Islam and Marriage

[xegyn]

Never knew who Kaysar was until tonight and have never watched the show. Anyway, since he is Iraqi and lives in So Cal it caught my interest. I live in Huntington Beach but have actually resided in Amman, Jordan and Baghdad for the past (almost) 3 years. I am currently working with the new Iraqi government helping them get set up and have never been in the military.

Anyway, I met a girl here almost two years ago and we became great friends. She had never left Baghdad and is a graduate of Baghdad university with an engineering degree. She speaks perfect english and is truly one of the most intelligent women I have ever known. She is also one of the most beautiful women (and remember I am from SoCal) I have ever met. Most young women here dress like any western woman by the way. We fell in love and because of some death threats, I rented her (us) an apartment in Jordan, she left Baghdad, and she got a good job in Amman working for an American company. The death threats were because she is a very open minded, intelligent, successful, Iraqi woman and some of the Muslim men do not like that. These people are a huge minority here but it only takes one.

She finally told her parents she and I had fallen in love and wanted to get married. They agreed to come to Jordan for our engagement but, since they are Muslim, they were very concerned about their daughter marrying an American. For those who do not know, it is ok for a Muslim man to marry a non-Muslim woman but not the other way around. I finally agreed to 'say the words' but that I really had no intention of actually converting. To be honest, I am actually atheist but we didn't tell them that.

We started making marriage arangements but soon realized that it would be nearly impossible to do in the middle east. Civil marriages are not allowed and I just did not feel comfortable converting for the sake of marriage - it felt like a huge lie. Being the open minded person she is, we agreed to go to Turkey and marry. We are now opening a business (restaurant/bar) in Jordan and could not be happier. Haven't broken the news to the parents about that one either :o but it is the best way for us to stay in the middle east close to her family. She has a 24 year old brother and he loves the idea. He is a film maker and currently directing a movie in Iraq. We've gotten to be really good friends.

The only thing is that we still have to be very careful about what we tell some people here. Even educated people will not always condone what we did. We are two of the happiest people around and really don't care what people think but I am curious what the thoughts are here (just curious in an anonymous setting).

Her and I talk a LOT about her faith and we both agree there are some things that are taken way out of context and some things that really don't make sense. Christianity is just as bad if taken to the extreme.

If anyone has any questions about Islam, Iraq, etc. from a westerners perspective feel free to ask. Iraq is NOT what our media portrays it to be. These are some of the most intelligent and friendly people in the world. A vast majority of Iraqis do NOT share the views of those you see blowing things up in the media. They are just frustrated and want to move forward with our assistance.

Anyway, it sounds like Kaysar has made an impact on people which I truly hope changes some stereotypes. I, too, was very ignorant before I came here so I can understand it to some extent.

[cyounus]

xegyn,

I read what you wrote and then I had to read it 2 more times. I still do not believe what I read. You and your wife has made a decision that will affect the rest of her life as well as her after life. I will not comment on that decision. But I have a question for you.

Did you talk about children and how they would be raised?

[xegyn]

Yours is a very typical reply and I respect it. We have talked about that many times and we have agreed that she will teach them about Islam and they will be allowed to make their own decision later in life. We will never 'force' anything on them. You have to understand that religion is not important from my perspective but I respect how important it is for her and her family. I will never try to 'convert' her and she will never try to convert me. We have the most open discussions about this all the time.

You will probably not like this but we do have some compromises. She has fasted every year but, for the first time, she is not fasting. Instead she has decided to dedicate herself to her good health instead. This was her decision and I support it. She is working out twice a day and eating only very nutritional foods. As you know, nutrition is not of great importance here and there has never been any education on it. I supported her the last two Ramadan's so I was more than prepared to do it this year too. Ramadan is really about dedicating yourself to something and that is what she is doing.

I do speak some arabic and plan to be fluent by the time we have children so they will speak both languages.

[cyounus]

First, I apologize for taking away from your offer of giving perpective on a matter that should be important to everyone. Futhurmore, I will continue to not judge you or wife but I have another question.

1. You say that you respect the religion and her family. How can you reconcile that with what you did, ie. telling her family that you converted?

2. Does your wife feel that she can teach the children if she herself does not believe what she is teaching? Children learn from watching their parients as much as what they are told.

[xegyn]

I was completely honest with them about not converting. "I finally agreed to 'say the words' but that I really had no intention of actually converting". That was acceptable to them because they knew how happy we were together. You have to understand that I did not convert because of my respect for their beliefs. As I mentioned, I felt it would be a lie.

We have a partnership. We are best friends. I am not the 'head of the household' but, rather, we share that responsibility so her voice is as strong as mine. Her father was communist when she was a child but she was still raised a Muslim by her mother. He has since converted after spending many years hiding from Sadam's regime.

[zuhra]

Hey Xegyn

I read your post, I don't know what to say to it, I mean it is a lie to parents that you converted. Well it is non of my business. I have question for you...

1. how you face them everyday knowning that you guys are hidding some so big from them.

[xegyn]

Again, read my posts. I never lied to her parents. They just wanted to hear me say the words in Arabic but I told them I would not formally convert. Would they rather I convert? Yes. Her mother more so than her father. They know we had a civil marriage in Turkey also.

[cyounus]

OK now I have more questions.

You say that her father was not muslim when he married her mother, is that correct? and that being the case, why would her parents want you to "say the words" if they know you are not converting? Your wife is just following in her parents footprients. And isn't that being disrespectful to the religion as well as yourself.

[Ladyjinx]

What are "the words" ?

[Hashman]

Originally posted by Ladyjinx
What are "the words" ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahadah

The English translation is "There is no god except God, Muhammad is the Messenger of God."

[Ladyjinx]

Thank you Hashman

[cyounus]

A convert must attest his or her faith by submitting to Lord of the universe by saying; " I SUBMIT MYSELF TO THE LORD OF THE WORLDS". (Arabic: Aslamtu li rabbil aalameen)", and by attesting to the truth that there is no other god but GOD by saying; "I bear witness that there is no god except God " (Arabic transliteration: "Ash hadu anlaa ilaaha illallaah").

Of course submission will not be complete unless one obeys God's every command in his Glorious book, The Holy Qur'an and by observing the duties encumbered by all Muslims (submitters) such as; Salat, Fasting, Zakat and Hajj.

" When his Lord said to him "Submit" he said
" I submit to the Lord of the Worlds"
(Quran Sura 2:131)

There is a common misconception about converting to Islam (submission). People think they can adopt a name of a religion, change their own name and appearance, recite a one line declaration of faith called the "shahada" (which is usually incorrect because it mentions the name of Muhammad next to God) and......poof.........they are magically changed into another person. Once they become Muslim by name, they believe they are automatically saved - just like the Christians who claim that by accepting Jesus you are guaranteed a ticket to paradise. We read about this "chosen one" mentality in the Quran:


[2:111] Some have said, "No one will enter Paradise except Jews or Christians!" Such is their wishful thinking. Say, "Show us your proof, if you are right."


[2:112] Indeed, those who submit themselves absolutely to GOD alone, while leading a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord; they have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

[Ladyjinx]

Is that all they do to convert? Alot of organized "christian" religions they want you to go to their bible school for a brief period of time, then get baptized in order to convert.

[cyounus]

I thinnk I was posting the same time you were

[Ladyjinx]

Thank you Cyounus :}

[xegyn]

To be honest, I am not sure if her father was muslim when he married her mother. He may have become communist after their marriage. Plus, I know that she (her mother) did not become serious about her faith until after her brother died in the Iran-Iraq war. Evidently, communism was somewhat popular in Iraq during the 70s.

Cyounus:

What would you suggest we do? I was (and am) madly in love with her and she is madly in love with me. Should we have ignored that for the sake of religion? Should I have converted even though deep in my heart it is a lie? Wouldn't that actually be disrespectful to the religion?

To answer your questions about why they just wanted me to say the words. This is one that really frustrates me. To say the words meant that they could tell the family that their daughter was marrying a muslim - at least it was enough to make them feel comfortable with that. That is my understanding anyway.

We are happy, very happy, and that is really all that matters to us. My parents, in the states, love her even though they have never met her. They never even asked what religion she is but just wanted to know that we are happy.

[cyounus]

As I said earlyer, It is not my place to judge anyone so I will not. nor will I give an opinion on your situation. I will have empathy for you. And I thank you for answering my questions. I will even keep you in my prayers today. And if you ever want to talk you can u2u me. But I still can not understand why her perents want you to say the word, because even if you were honist with them are they honest with themselves or others?

[xegyn]

No, the parents are not being honest and this is a problem I have but I think you know how society is in the middle east. I am even referred to in social circles, by the family, with my arab name that they have given me. They certainly do not mention that I am American either. Maybe if it was not still a dangerous place that would be different but I am not so sure.

If you truly have empathy, then be happy, because we certainly are.

[cyounus]

I have empathy because this is not the first time I have seend this. I live in Maadi, Cairo part of each year. So I do understand