PRE 9-11, POST 9-11

[cyounus]

Living in Manhattan prior to 9-11 everyone lived in their own little worlds, with communities segregated.

On 9-11, I lost friends that would be called "good people", Their were murderd by a group of men that used somthing that belonged to me. Something that makes me who I am. They used my religion. I did not see the first plane hit but I wittness the second one and then I watched the TWC come down. I left Manhattan that day not knowing who or why.

Post 9-11, I felt anger, I felt anger because these men were suposed to be "My Brothers" in Islam. Yet you see them on tape saying that All Americans even muslims were the enemy. But through all that I had a circle of non-muslim friends that tried to protect me. They did a better job than my husband's security detail. Because of my Husband's job we were taken staight away to another place. I returned three days later to a place that I did not reconize. It had changed to such a degree that I did not know if it would ever be back to "normal".

I sometimes wonder if I did not do a good job at telling people who we are and what our religion is all about. In a way are we (Muslims) somewhat responsable for what happened by not going and knocking on the proverbial door and telling the world who we really are and not let the few repersent the masses?

[the1]

You raise 2 issues. One is valid, in that certainly Muslims need to make every effort to educate people and spread the message of Islam - and perhas up until 9/11 this had been lacking. However to make the connection that this in some way burdens us with 9/11 or the world's subsequent reaction to Islam, is unfair.

There are numerous examples of Muslims spreading the message and making positive contributions to society. Many Muslims are in prominent publi positions, sports athletes come to mind. The fact that the media focuses its attention on trying to negatively portray Muslims, is only an example of the media being used to reinforce public opinion and mold it, but certainly not creat the sentiment.

The overlying issue is that the 9/11 suspects, were men who were misguided in their beliefs (to say the least) and committed a horrible crime. They also happened to be Muslims (allegedly). To say they were Muslims who did this crime, and moreover they did it because they were Muslims, is akin to saying that Timothy McVeigh bombed the Oklahoma City Building because he was a white American male, or that Ted Kazinski (the Unibomber) committed his crimes because he was a white American male, or even the BTK killer, or Ted Bundy, or so on. The error occurs in misattributing the features, as causal factors. The fact that the majority of all pedophiles are white males, does not mean that all white males must promote themselves as not pedophiles.

Essentially what I'm trying to say is that being Muslim isn't what led to the 9/11 hijackers to do what they did, there were other mitigating factors, and we need not embrace collective guilt and assign ourselves blame for the failures of others. That being said, Muslims should strive to become more vocal, more assertive in their place in socitey, and less isolationist as they have been in the past (for whatever reason).

I am often reminded of the famous Edmund Burke saying:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil, is that good men do nothing"

If you feel yourself to be a good person, then do something about it.

[justme]

Cyounus,

Im not sure what you feel responsible for, not educating non-muslims? That is not your responsibility. If non muslims believe that terrorist are muslim and that Islam sanctions the murder of innocents, it is THEIR (non muslims) responsibility to stop the ignorance and educate themselves.

Pre 9/11 I was well aware of terrorism, I feared them but I was, as most Americans were, of the mind that they cant attack us here on our own soil! I was ignorant and I was arrogant. I knew nothing of Islam but I did know that NO religion sanctions the murder of innocents, I never bought into the terrorist use of Islam as an excuse for thier "war". I like to think that most non muslims feel the same (maybe I am being ignorant again, I hope not).

Post 9/11 I feel the same, Terrorists are not muslim they are evil. Islam does not sanction the murder of innocents.

9/11 was one of those times when we all remember exactly where we were and what we were doing when heard about it. Like you I did not see the first plane hit the WTC, but I did see the second plane hit and like everyone else I knew instantly that we were being attacked by terrorists. First I was sad, heartbroken, than I was scared, then I get mad, furious, as angry as I have ever been. BUT I was angry at the terrorist not Muslims, not Islam. I believe that most people feel the same way, I know that my circle of friends and family do.

[Ladyjinx]

There will always be people who hate in this world, if we all had the same skin color and religion, then the people with blue eyes would be prejudiced against those with brown eyes or vice/versa.
I dont even like to talk about 911, for one most people have forgotten what happend that day. When talking to people they blame it on iraq.
Now if i'm not mistaken it was osama bin laden ( not good with spelling)
who was the mastermind behind that and not Sadaam Huiseen. ( again spelling :p)
But Everyone these days blames iraq, i've even seen bush say comments such as "they attacked us first". And if the Iraq people attacked us ...well i musta been out of my head that day because i do not remember it.
It just gets me so mad. Americans are hated all over for the bullies we are.
Not that i dont love this country, i do, and i also have family fighting in iraq at this time. I honestly feel we are in iraq for oil though. And if my nephew dies there, then he will have died to help line bush's pockets and thats how i feel.
But to put all that aside i do hate how people (even our government) was quick to be suspicious of people just because of their religion and race.
Every one of us that lives here came here from somewhere else. (except the native americans.) But i thnk it is mostly caused from fear, and unfortuntatly we live in a society that likes to feed the fear.

[cyounus]

What I am saying is that I as a Muslim am responsable for educating people and not letting the media do it for me.

It is NOT my place to judge if those men were Muslim or not. I was angrey because they evoked the name of Islam and that is who I am, my way of life. My religion and my religion does not say to murder inecent people.

If I do not do my duity in teaching then it is the same as l agreeing with the media.

[Ladyjinx]

I think its a good idea to educate people when you can. However one of my biggest pet peeves is the people who come knocking on my door to tell me i've got a reserved ticket to hell because i do not believe as they do, dont want to let them in the door to come preach to me, and do not belong to their religion. If i go seeking to learn about them then that is different.
This board has been a wonderful thing, where people can come ask questions and get answers and i know i have learned alot and still am.
More importantly i've had some pretty good answers given to things that i have always wondered about and made no sense till now.
It also lets people see that Muslim's are just people just like the rest of us and not this mysterious secret society.....or whatever you know like the media makes them seem.
I do think there needs to be more media exposure of a good kind of the muslim people.
There are alot of people i think like me, who's only exposure to muslims has been via tv. I'm not saying thats right or fair, its just all i've ever seen on them.

[cyounus]

Lady,

What you have said warms my heart. It inspires me to be a better person. To open up and let people see me as a whole. In that regards I am able to knock of the proverbial door (not physicaly go from door to door).

Monkey see monkey do :D

[Ladyjinx]

What i know of you Cyounus your already a great person!

and

Monkey see monkey do
Monkey will eventually get in trouble too :P:P

( trouble always finds me .....my husband says i need a keeper..have you been talking to him with that monkey stuff?? ) j/k

[cyounus]

My husband says my filter is gone. You know, the one that is supose to filter your thoughts before you speek. :D

[Ladyjinx]

Oh......i did not know those existed.....i dont think i ever had one lol!

[Kay]

I could say a lot here, but I want to keep it short.

In one class I took some years ago, I learned that lies will affect people; a lie believed or accepted as truth will affect you and others even though it is based on a lie.
Thus, why care should be taken when reading news etc.
TV is just one source from which we form our world view/beliefs about ourselves and others.

I'll just share the words my father said long ago, in the late 60's during the 'Cold War.' He said "Those people are not your enemy. They are doing what everyone else in this country is doing. They are providing for their families, a roof over their heads and food on the table." He then proceeded to tell us who the enemy is: greed, seeking power and control.

Ladyjinx,
I agree with you 110%. It is my hope others in the world who do hate us see us as my dad saw people during the Cold War.

Cyonous,
Mahandis K. Gandhi said "Be the change you wish to see in the world."
You want people to see what a true Muslim is. From what I've read of your posts here in this forum, I think you are doing that. You are a sharing person, a caring person.
You can't reach the entire world, but you can and are making a difference in a small percentage on this forum. You can make a difference in the lives of those you run across: neighbors, co-workers etc.

Phone ringing! Again!

[cyounus]

Kay
thank you. That means a lot to me.

I am sorry that today I was cranky but the discussions last night here at the house got wayyyyyyy to intense. David my 24 y/o even got into it and he NEVER gets into anything but the gameboy and ESPN when he visits.

[Kay]

That is understandable.
People get 'cranky' when their mind is occupied.

The phone kept ringing, or I would have said a lot more! Hope it won't for awhile so I can read the new post.

[anii]

Originally posted by cyounus
Living in Manhattan prior to 9-11 everyone lived in their own little worlds, with communities segregated.

On 9-11, I lost friends that would be called "good people", Their were murderd by a group of men that used somthing that belonged to me. Something that makes me who I am. They used my religion. I did not see the first plane hit but I wittness the second one and then I watched the TWC come down. I left Manhattan that day not knowing who or why.

Post 9-11, I felt anger, I felt anger because these men were suposed to be "My Brothers" in Islam. Yet you see them on tape saying that All Americans even muslims were the enemy. But through all that I had a circle of non-muslim friends that tried to protect me. They did a better job than my husband's security detail. Because of my Husband's job we were taken staight away to another place. I returned three days later to a place that I did not reconize. It had changed to such a degree that I did not know if it would ever be back to "normal".

I sometimes wonder if I did not do a good job at telling people who we are and what our religion is all about. In a way are we (Muslims) somewhat responsable for what happened by not going and knocking on the proverbial door and telling the world who we really are and not let the few repersent the masses?

Wow. Well said. This is the kind of "real life" story we need to hear about.

Thank you.

:)

[zuhra]

Cynous you are making a difference, especially in this form, I really like your post. It is really touchy.........:) I am a muslim, when i read your post it realy affect me so thanks for sharing

[Debookwrm]

Originally posted by cyounus
Living in Manhattan prior to 9-11 everyone lived in their own little worlds, with communities segregated.

On 9-11, I lost friends that would be called "good people", Their were murderd by a group of men that used somthing that belonged to me. Something that makes me who I am. They used my religion. I did not see the first plane hit but I wittness the second one and then I watched the TWC come down. I left Manhattan that day not knowing who or why.

Post 9-11, I felt anger, I felt anger because these men were suposed to be "My Brothers" in Islam. Yet you see them on tape saying that All Americans even muslims were the enemy. But through all that I had a circle of non-muslim friends that tried to protect me. They did a better job than my husband's security detail. Because of my Husband's job we were taken staight away to another place. I returned three days later to a place that I did not reconize. It had changed to such a degree that I did not know if it would ever be back to "normal".

I sometimes wonder if I did not do a good job at telling people who we are and what our religion is all about. In a way are we (Muslims) somewhat responsable for what happened by not going and knocking on the proverbial door and telling the world who we really are and not let the few repersent the masses?

I am so sorry that you feel like blaming yourself. There are so many other people in the world who are willingly blaming all of Islam for 9/11. As is true in every group of people there are some who will choose a different path...some will interpret differently. It is sad that anyone feels justified in blaming Islam for this tragedy...but don't blame yourself. By being who you are, you will change opinions.

Deb

[cyounus]

I am not sorry, It inspires me to be a better person

[Lala]

Originally posted by cyounus

I sometimes wonder if I did not do a good job at telling people who we are and what our religion is all about. In a way are we (Muslims) somewhat responsible for what happened by not going and knocking on the proverbial door and telling the world who we really are and not let the few represent the masses?

I am not Muslim, but I share some of your guilt (so to speak) after 9/11 because I don't think that all Americans are like those described by the terrorists. I heard that the people that flew the planes lived in this country for several months and in some cases YEARS before the attacks, and it saddens me to think that they did not see Americans in a more positive light. It had to be pure hate that drove those planes into those buildings and the field in PA.

Look at how many people come into this little forum and discuss a different religion and culture with respect. I know that you can find the hate and negativity if you look for it, but the acceptance and respect is there too. It all depends on what you are looking for.

My heart goes out to you and all Muslims because I know you felt a backlash from 9/11 and that was not fair. I don't think you could have stopped the hate that day - it was far too powerful - but look at all of the good you have brought to all of us.

We all have a responsibility to do what we can to counter prejudice in any way that we can. This includes reaching out to those that are different from us while respecting those differences.

Thank you for sharing.

[cyounus]

Lala

Thank you for you kind words of support

[Lala]

Originally posted by cyounus
Lala

Thank you for you kind words of support

You're welcome. Blessings to you.

[RhyanShae]

I think now is the time to start the education. The steps made in this forum alone are amazing. Think of how many may be lurking and read these threads, or only post in this forum, eager to learn the truth because, for a few months, we saw it on display in the BB house. It's amazing to me to be able to learn so much because I don't know many Muslims in my real life, and not really many in my online life.



I think what infuriates me about 9/11 is not just the terrorism and death. It was that men claimed to do it in the name of their religion and God. Any holy war disgusts me because it's an oxymoron that I cannot comprehend. Those men weren't acting of God, just as George W. Bush is not acting of God. They were filled with hate, ignorance, and blood-lust, and until people stop using God to excuse their actions and misdeeds, it will be a long path until we reach a more peaceful world.

I think what's starting to happen, even in this tiny speck on the internet, goes miles. Each person here that didn't know much about the Muslim faith before seeing Kaysar on BB6, now has learned the truth. Not the words said by George Bush or the media. Not those spouted by terrorists in their videos. The truth of it. There's a long way to go, but it's a start, and I don't think anyone should feel guilt because the masses weren't educated. The things I've learned best, I've learned by watching someone lead and be the example.

Whatever guilt you feel, you should forget now. Because, you have more than made up for it with your intelligent answers in this forum, and your willingness to show many of us the truth.

[cyounus]

It is not guilt that I feel. It is pity for those who were misslead, anger for those that mislead them, and sympathy for those left behind.

If I am to take pride in my duities as a muslim then I have to remove a brick in the wall of ignorance.

[Molly]

Originally posted by cyounus
Living in Manhattan prior to 9-11 everyone lived in their own little worlds, with communities segregated.

On 9-11, I lost friends that would be called "good people", Their were murderd by a group of men that used somthing that belonged to me. Something that makes me who I am. They used my religion. I did not see the first plane hit but I wittness the second one and then I watched the TWC come down. I left Manhattan that day not knowing who or why.

Post 9-11, I felt anger, I felt anger because these men were suposed to be "My Brothers" in Islam. Yet you see them on tape saying that All Americans even muslims were the enemy. But through all that I had a circle of non-muslim friends that tried to protect me. They did a better job than my husband's security detail. Because of my Husband's job we were taken staight away to another place. I returned three days later to a place that I did not reconize. It had changed to such a degree that I did not know if it would ever be back to "normal".

I sometimes wonder if I did not do a good job at telling people who we are and what our religion is all about. In a way are we (Muslims) somewhat responsable for what happened by not going and knocking on the proverbial door and telling the world who we really are and not let the few repersent the masses?

I think anyone who isnt ignorant knows that there are extremists in all religions. There are ignorant people everywhere, no matter what faith they are a part of. After 9/11 people were fearful and wanted to put a face on the enemy. Unfortunately, many good people who had nothing to do with a few crazy, religious extremists were targeted out of fear. Even when I first started watching BB6, I thought: "uh oh, they put a Muslim man in the house, this is going to get interesting." Indeed it did get interesting, but not in the way I had thought. I, along with all of America fell in love with Kaysar. He was Muslim, but he wasnt some scary charicature. He was funny, had a sense of humor and was just an all around great person. And the firefighter Crappy was hated by all. It's nice to see that Americans will take things at face value and call a spade a spade. Many stereotypes were broken, which is awesome. :)

[Kaysar_Rocks]

Cyounus,
I want to say thank you for educating me. I must admit I have learned alot from your posts and am glad you want to help educate. There are things that I thought were true about Muslims that aren't. For buying into all the media showed or wanted us to believe so I feel terrible at myself for believing these things. Thanks to you though I now have a open and clearer mind about things.

[chipmunk]

At my job this week, we were all sharing some banana bread and one of my co-workers said that she did not want to break her Ramadan fast. Before Kaysar, I might just have said ok and continued to eat banana bread. Before Kaysar, this girl was just my co-worker (sweet girl), but never thought of her as "the face of Muslim" even though each day she wears traditional garb. But because of Big Brother, we began a conversation about Ramadan, and I was laughing to myself that this was all because of Kaysar. (We wrapped up banana bread for her for when she could break her fast.)
I guess what I am saying, cyounus, is this may be the perfect opportunity for you to begin to tell people who you are not only as an individual, but as a representative of your religion. Pretty impressive opportunity presented to us all because of a reality show.

[cyounus]

Thank you
GOD does work wonders :)